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Post by markm on Jul 2, 2017 16:42:19 GMT -5
If people are SO desperate for a particular paint scheme, why don't you break open your wallets and contract it out? There are a number of very competent customizers, several making regular appearances here.
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Post by modelwarships on Jul 2, 2017 19:20:02 GMT -5
If people are SO desperate for a particular paint scheme, why don't you break open your wallets and contract it out? There are a number of very competent customizers, several making regular appearances here. I don't think I heard anyone say anything about being desperate. Just expressing a desire to see H2 scheme as well. I like the swoosh, but as it was pointed out H2 covers a broader era to model. Of course if AZL had done H2, we would be here griping that that the Swoosh wasn't done. As far as custom goes, I have a cool U30C in cascade green, and a GP39 in.... wait for it.... BNSF swoosh! But I only have so many hobby $$$ to spend and I have a serious HO addiction to feed as well. |
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Post by DAZed on Jul 3, 2017 0:36:00 GMT -5
If people are SO desperate for a particular paint scheme, why don't you break open your wallets and contract it out? There are a number of very competent customizers, several making regular appearances here. Why? We're customers, just providing feedback. And it's pretty unconventional for a manufacturer not to do one of the more commercially viable schemes, that's all. It's not like we're asking for something off-the-wall unusual here. And yeah, custom painting. I would love to see someone try to pull of the BNSF H-II scheme without commercially available decals. Even if one had the ability to make decals, it's still a tall order. AZL has done the scheme before...and done it well I might add, unlike some other manufacturers in larger scales even. So there is great benefit to having a stock paint scheme in this case. Still, you're probably right....someone will do it. Heck, if decals were available I would probably try it. Good news is you could buy the H3 one and already have the silver painted trucks and a decent start on handrails. But without decals, that's an added level of complexity and cost that I probably wouldn't attempt. That's the other part of the equation....not everyone in Z-scale buys $2000 brass locos and has a arsenal of FR freight cars...I have a conservative budget to contend with as I'm sure others do too. |
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Post by markm on Jul 3, 2017 9:29:05 GMT -5
As they say in Vegas: you're making your point the hard way.
But as for customers providing feedback: I don't own BNSF and will never own any. The road is an oddity where I live and doesn't fit into my layout. The limited resources of AZL would be better spent on F3 A-B-B sets of WP (all three paint schemes) or resurrecting the GP7/GP9 and producing the remaining 13 WP paint schemes and the Cotton Belt daylight...I'd buy them all. There is still a need for a passenger steam locomotive. And while we're at it, please no more coal cars. I haven't seen a prototype load of coal since 1999.
The reality is that Z is still a young scale with so many pieces of rolling stock that need to be produced. I waited 6 years for a correct SP RDC. Even longer for knuckle couplers and a diesel locomotive that wasn't an F7. So to me two years for a new OEM paint scheme is nothing.
I'm on a fixed model railroading budget, but there has been so little that fits my theme, I've saved enough to buy those brass units...if they were actually available. Which brings me back to the thread: where are the SP units? Always a sell out road. Have they already sold out under some secret pre-order scheme?
Mark
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Post by korgs130 on Jul 3, 2017 10:21:58 GMT -5
I've been looking forward to these locomotives for a long time. I purchase all 3 the BNSF and will do the same when you release then in H2. Thanks for the great products!
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Post by DAZed on Jul 3, 2017 11:15:46 GMT -5
As they say in Vegas: you're making your point the hard way. But as for customers providing feedback: I don't own BNSF and will never own any. The road is an oddity where I live and doesn't fit into my layout. The limited resources of AZL would be better spent on F3 A-B-B sets of WP (all three paint schemes) or resurrecting the GP7/GP9 and producing the remaining 13 WP paint schemes and the Cotton Belt daylight...I'd buy them all. There is still a need for a passenger steam locomotive. And while we're at it, please no more coal cars. I haven't seen a prototype load of coal since 1999. The reality is that Z is still a young scale with so many pieces of rolling stock that need to be produced. I waited 6 years for a correct SP RDC. Even longer for knuckle couplers and a diesel locomotive that wasn't an F7. So to me two years for a new OEM paint scheme is nothing. I'm on a fixed model railroading budget, but there has been so little that fits my theme, I've saved enough to buy those brass units...if they were actually available. Which brings me back to the thread: where are the SP units? Always a sell out road. Have they already sold out under some secret pre-order scheme? Mark It's pretty clear you don't care about BNSF or ES44's so why exactly are you here? Tell me again which of us is making their point the hard way? There are plenty of F3's and GP7's available if you're willing (seems you are) to pay to have them custom painted, no? Frankly I don't disagree that AZL should be moving on to something else new and exciting. At this point, I probably won't buy the BNSF locos if they do "waste their time" with it. I HAVE been waiting on this scheme for over 2 years already and thought it was a no-brainer. AZL hinted several times they would do it on the ES44's. But initially they were doing the AC4400 and if they'd done that there is only one correct BNSF scheme which is Heritage-II. So when I started in Z a little over two years ago that was one of the many carrots dangling in front of me. The shift to the ES44's didn't impact me (or so I thought) so I continued down the path of developing a theme based on 2006-ish BNSF. (when the "Swoosh" was still somewhat of an anomaly) So, is 6-1/2 years long enough to wait in Mark's z-scale rules book? The reality of all this for me is this: without that carrot of a GE diesel to effectively model BNSF, I'm probably reversing course on Z. I'll continue working on my current layout, but won't keep buying locos and rolling stock for the second layout I had planned. SO, if I LEAVE Z-SCALE will that make you happy? Something tells me no. |
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Post by smr on Jul 3, 2017 11:59:34 GMT -5
I would not give up Z-scale just because some of the manufacturers do not provide me with the rolling stock i would like to have. If so, my Chessie roaster would be down to three. Thus, give custom painting a second thought. Some model railroaders even regard this as the highest art!
Regarding SP, i was waiting for the two-tone greys heavyweights SP and UP were using (they are exactly the reverse from NYC). Would fit perfectly with the Challenger. So i started painting a few and will try "The Lark" on the long run.
Mark, SP for ES44AC is an insider joke, or?
Best,
Sven
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Post by DAZed on Jul 3, 2017 13:04:54 GMT -5
I would not give up Z-scale just because some of the manufacturers do not provide me with the rolling stock i would like to have. If so, my Chessie roaster would be down to three. Thus, give custom painting a second thought. Some model railroaders even regard this as the highest art! Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting AZL *HAS* to "provide me with rolling stock I would like to have". They can make whatever business decisions they want....it's their company. The issue I have is that I mistakenly thought this loco was on the way. It's my fault...not disputing that I made assumptions. That doesn't make it any less unfortunate for my situation. I agree...a good custom paint job is art! It's just not something I can pull off easily. I believe that knowing one's limitations is paramount to success.  EDIT: I am not "giving up Z-scale". I have a small layout that I've started but haven't made much progress on it. It will proceed as planned. I had a plans to start a fairly large Z layout in about 5-6 years but that will probably not happen anymore. I will just start the migration to HO at that point which I figured would happen around retirement in ~20 years or so. The idea of a small HO switching layout seems more manageable (and cheaper) anyway. |
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Post by smr on Jul 3, 2017 13:13:32 GMT -5
I would not give up Z-scale just because some of the manufacturers do not provide me with the rolling stock i would like to have. If so, my Chessie roaster would be down to three. Thus, give custom painting a second thought. Some model railroaders even regard this as the highest art! Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting AZL *HAS* to "provide me with rolling stock I would like to have". They can make whatever business decisions they want....it's their company. The issue I have is that I mistakenly thought this loco was on the way. It's my fault...not disputing that I made assumptions. That doesn't make it any less unfortunate for my situation. I agree...a good custom paint job is art! It's just not something I can pull off easily. I believe that knowing one's limitations is paramount to success. For custom paint jobs contact for example Aaron. He helped me a lot with the Chessies. Best, Sven |
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Post by markm on Jul 3, 2017 14:10:53 GMT -5
Mark, SP for ES44AC is an insider joke, or? I'll let you decide: www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/49764.htm But I think a better joke is: www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/49760.htmThis is what happens when a scale runs out of prototypes to model. I too am waiting for the TTG. Stick them behind an AC-12 and you have the Treasure Island Limited, a paired window coach behind a daylight PA and you have the Eastside Local. But I digress. Doug, You seem a bit testy and you needn't be. Yes you're right I'm not interested in the BNSF or any road east of the Rockies, but I am interested in the UP units and my dealer is already aware. But frankly if you want a particular model and a particular paint scheme to your plan, the only real options are DIY or a customizer. fulfilled most of my "need" list with some slice and dice, and some paint. That's been true for the past 50 years and regardless of scale. Mark |
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Post by Rob Albritton on Jul 4, 2017 7:25:34 GMT -5
Hi Guys, We have had requests for the BNSF ES44AC in Heritage II paint. For review, here were the earlier comments: I see the BNSF Heritage III/"Swoosh" in your photos, but are you doing the Heritage II scheme (Yellow Serif BNSF lettering, like on the SD75M) as well this run? We will only be releasing the "Swoosh" design this time around. That's very disappointing. I'm not sure why you would skip one of the most ubiquitous schemes on a locomotive *ever* ... I was also hoping for a BNSF Heritage II release early on for the ES44s. I know I could get an SD75 but the detail looks so much better on the ES44. Hans or Rob, can you give a timeframe for the Heritage II? There were also comments regarding accuracy, research and realism.... I bought all three BNSF Roadnumbers last night and would buy H2's if released. Like others have said BNSF is a mixed bag of paint schemes and for realism, I like to break up the perfect paint schemes consist a little, some H2 would help. Mixing in some BN and ATSF helps too. One other thing, please do a little research before slapping on H2 or any other scheme. Study pics and make sure you match up subtle things like headlight locations and other details. Z is hard enough to work on those of us with big thumbs and diminishing eyesight, without subjecting us to making modifications to our very expensive little engines. So we are in the process of doing that work. Preliminary research indicates that the Heritage II paint on BNSF ES44AC locomotives is very rare. Based on what I have seen, it was only applied to the first 18 ES44AC locomotives delivered to BNSF (5718-5747) which were delivered between August 2003 and January 2004. The Heritage III paint (Swoosh) was intorduced in 2005, and it was applied as factory new paint to the remaining 700+ ES44AC locomotives delivered. Furthermore, the first 18 locomotives were pre-production ES44AC, and may have had some differences with the final production unints. Further research is required. So, in short, it looks like only 4% of the BNSF ES44AC locomotives ever had Heritage II paint, and those might not match the production locomotive that we modeled. BUT, BUT, BUT... There were almost 100 BNSF ES44DC locomotives delivered in Heritage II paint. It appears that BNSF 7650 - 7743 (except 7687 which was used to test the Swoosh logo and 7695 which had a one-of-a-kind "Golden Swoosh" logo) all had H2 paint. Now we need to confirm that there were no EXTERNAL differences between the ES44AC and ES44DC, and it may be possible to produce the BNSF ES44DC in H2. Research continues... |
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Post by DAZed on Jul 4, 2017 8:12:37 GMT -5
Rob,
Assuming you're actually producing an ES44DC (or using the AC as a stand-in) that's not a bad plan. I think you're starting to see the point...it's not so much that we need a BNSF H-II ES44AC. It's that we need a Z-scale GE locomotive of any kind in BNSF H-II to Rep-Re-SeNt! :-D So yes, the H-II ES44AC's are pretty rare, but they at least give us that GE look in the correct scheme for the older BNSF diesels. Yet still a completely legit scheme.
That's what I was planning all along...to use the AC44400's--and then ES44AC's--as stand ins for ES44DC's/C44-9W's. Truthfully, if you did a Dash 9 in plastic all of this probably goes away...then we'd have all BNSF Schemes, ATSF warbonnet, SP, UP, NS, CNW, you name it. But from normal viewing distance, I think most of us would take/would have taken an ES44AC in lieu of a 2/4/10/20 year wait. We're not getting any younger. ;-)
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Post by shamoo737 on Jul 4, 2017 10:17:04 GMT -5
Still pretty young for somebody modeling z.
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Post by dave on Jul 4, 2017 20:29:17 GMT -5
Hans or Rob...a few posts back, someone asked how many BNSF SD70ACe's were made; can you divulge that information?
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Post by billmock on Jul 4, 2017 23:19:32 GMT -5
BUT, BUT, BUT... There were almost 100 BNSF ES44DC locomotives delivered in Heritage II paint. It appears that BNSF 7650 - 7743 (except 7687 which was used to test the Swoosh logo and 7695 which had a one-of-a-kind "Golden Swoosh" logo) all had H2 paint. Now we need to confirm that there were no EXTERNAL differences between the ES44AC and ES44DC, and it may be possible to produce the BNSF ES44DC in H2. Research continues... [/quote] Just last month, I caught BNSF 7737 running through the Dolores Yard in Carson, CA. Bill Mock  |
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