|
|
Post by markm on Mar 15, 2021 6:14:51 GMT -5
We chose to avoid the WP F7 in Zephyr paint scheme. All photos we have of that paint scheme shows the FP7, not F7. And yes we will be happy to do a Pumpkin 913, 914 or 917 down the road. Hans, I'm afraid I don't quite understand this post. Perhaps it's just nomenclature. Zephyr paint scheme typically applies to the orange and silver scheme on any locomotive not just the passenger service. Your 63008-1,2 certainly seem to embody the freight version. There are a number of images of this scheme available, although a dearth of 1950s images on line. I'd be pleased to see the pumpkin scheme. Of the choices you mention, probably 917 is the best choice. 913 really should be a Zephyr scheme which it had into the UP merger. I don't show 914A/D making it into the final renumbering. But I do show 915D becoming 915. Of course there are a number of other units under the original numbering scheme that are possibilities. Mark |
|
|
|
Post by Curn on Mar 15, 2021 10:19:49 GMT -5
920-D seems to be in the right paint scheme. She just needs a steam era snow plow attached.  |
|
|
|
Post by Curn on Mar 15, 2021 11:34:10 GMT -5
Wow AZL! I just noticed. You guys actually de-skirted your molds rather than just painting them black! N scale has never has this level of detail!
|
|
|
|
Post by markm on Mar 15, 2021 12:29:01 GMT -5
Curn, Thanks for the detail, I'm adding it to my WP locomotive database. Here's a color image of 920D from 1968: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5404049 For paint discussion here's a pretty good image from 1971 of both the Zephyr and pumpkin freight paint schemes: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5404049 The features to spot are that the black roof extends over the cab and it's window frames. The intake grills are also black, a shortcoming for MTL and a number of models in other scales as well. All this is easily fixable. Road number is low on back the back panel in 3" letters. This is where I'm not sure. The AZL model does a very good job of matching the 913 scheme of 1977: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4582512So Gerd is correct that is model could be easily turned into 913. But does it apply for any other locomotive like 920 at some other time? The FRRS seems to think so, as they have matched it on their locomotives, I'm just uncertain if the was prototypical. If not it's still just a minor paint job. There's a lot of good in the AZL F7s: DCC, excellent operation, and details like, as you pointed out, de-skirting. I've got some time before mine arrive so I have a bit more time to research. Mark |
|
|
|
Post by Rob Albritton on Mar 15, 2021 13:26:55 GMT -5
The intake grills are also black  We have found the grills to be a hard bit to identify by photograph because they weather / get coated in dirt and soot very quickly. Pictures taken right after the paint is applied is the best way to identify colors, but they can be hard to find. If you look closely at the photo you linked, you can see on the horizontal sections some of the silver paint peeking through the dirt. There is also an argument to be made that we should paint the models as they appeared with some common weathering complete - in this case, paint the grills black, because the real color would be incredibly hard to spot in the real world. Modeling is compromises, we do our best, but can't make everyone happy all of the time. |
|
|
|
Post by cwrr on Mar 15, 2021 15:03:32 GMT -5
Grills from the factory were stainless steel, correct?
|
|
|
|
Post by DAZed on Mar 15, 2021 15:32:28 GMT -5
There is also an argument to be made that we should paint the models as they appeared with some common weathering complete - in this case, paint the grills black, because the real color would be incredibly hard to spot in the real world. Modeling is compromises, we do our best, but can't make everyone happy all of the time. About that... Any thought by AZL about doing weathered rolling stock? It's more of a question than a request. I realize it's tough to get what *everybody* agrees is a good weathering job. (speaking of making everyone happy all of the time...  ) MTL does some GREAT stuff...and then over-graffiti's it. Their Railbox weathering is phenomenal...and then they ruin by going over-the-top graffiti-wise. (for the record I don't mind graffiti but just the obnoxious full car stuff is just not EVERY car you see.) What I personally would like to see is what Athearn does with their "Primed for Grime" stuff. Base coat of grimy black on the trucks, maybe a dusting of grime on the underbelly, thin shot of rust across the roof maybe, and...most importantly....fade the paint a few notches. If you did nothing else but that, I think you would get some good response. The modeler can then take it from there if they want to really grunge it up. Just an idea. |
|
|
|
Post by Curn on Mar 15, 2021 16:11:55 GMT -5
Would these weathered units sell better or worse than the cleans ones? www.railpictures.net/photo/760818/As far as the paint goes, These appear to be the 913(1977 to present)/ 917/921(1983 to present) museum repaint schemes. Most of the earlier images of the silver/orange paint scheme appear to have an orange pilot, and small unit numbers at the rear. But I dont want to be too authoratative on that assumption as the WP was all over the place as far as paint goes, and on washing their equipment. But look at these UP repainted units closely. The font used on the herald is the wrong font. www.railpictures.net/photo/449018/ |
|
|
|
Post by marmot on Mar 15, 2021 16:33:25 GMT -5
It seems that railroads try to keep passenger trains cleaner than freight. So, weathering seems less important or less prototypical for anything associated with passenger trains. But I agree light weathering around things like grills and exhausts can still look nice.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rob Albritton on Mar 15, 2021 18:35:34 GMT -5
It seems that railroads try to keep passenger trains cleaner than freight. I’m going to say yes to that. |
|
|
|
Post by Commodore on Mar 15, 2021 20:28:48 GMT -5
No, there will not be a CZ link. As stated, no F7s pulled the CZ. WP used F3s and FP7s. We did not tool the FP and it is a slightly longer locomotive that the F. I could also not find any green F7Bs in my research. Maybe we will do the full Orange paint scheme down the line. I’ve just discovered that I already have 3 of the “B” units (mine are dummy) that were purchased by Western Pacific with the FP7 “A” units. They were the exact same external dimensions and appearance as later F7 “B” units. Because they had no cab, these “B” units had the same water/steam generator capacity as the FP7A. All I need now is to find (or build) the leading units. Western Pacific actually did have passenger F7 B’s pulling the CZ. |
|
|
|
Post by Hans Riddervold (AZL) on Mar 16, 2021 4:01:33 GMT -5
I did a last minute change to the Green WP before production. The pre production sample had painted Aluminum Grills. It looked awful and was changed to body color since it looked way more prototypical.
Back to the "4" WP paint schemes. What I consider the Zephyr paint scheme is the Orange and Silver with the winged logo in front. That was only used on the F3A and FP7A (as far as I know).
We may very well do the FP7 and FP9 down the line since they were widely used on US and Canadian railroads. And as commented above on the WP, yes the FP7As ran with F7Bs.
And last some good news for the WP Silver and Orange F7A buyers. We will also send you a new pilot painted Orange when it becomes available.
|
|
|
|
Post by markm on Mar 16, 2021 4:15:12 GMT -5
No, there will not be a CZ link. As stated, no F7s pulled the CZ. WP used F3s and FP7s. We did not tool the FP and it is a slightly longer locomotive that the F. I could also not find any green F7Bs in my research. Maybe we will do the full Orange paint scheme down the line. I’ve just discovered that I already have 3 of the “B” units (mine are dummy) that were purchased by Western Pacific with the FP7 “A” units. They were the exact same external dimensions and appearance as later F7 “B” units. Because they had no cab, these “B” units had the same water/steam generator capacity as the FP7A. All I need now is to find (or build) the leading units. Western Pacific actually did have passenger F7 B’s pulling the CZ. Yes, they ran both F3Bs and F7Bs on the CZ with the FP7. Since I’m away from home I can’t confirm but I recall only the A units had the steam generator. In the later years they had problems maintaining the steam system and acquired several steam generator cars as seen in here third in:  And a detailed view: donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Dave-England-Photos/Western-Pacific/i-qmjPVQvI’ve been working on this one, 591, which is basically an appropriate AZL heavyweight baggage car with a little slice and dice and a couple of ladders. I’m not aware of appropriate trucks in Z so I’m using MTL Barber. Hope this helps, Mark |
|
|
|
Post by markm on Mar 16, 2021 4:44:15 GMT -5
The intake grills are also black We have found the grills to be a hard bit to identify by photograph because they weather / get coated in dirt and soot very quickly. Pictures taken right after the paint is applied is the best way to identify colors, but they can be hard to find. If you look closely at the photo you linked, you can see on the horizontal sections some of the silver paint peeking through the dirt. There is also an argument to be made that we should paint the models as they appeared with some common weathering complete - in this case, paint the grills black, because the real color would be incredibly hard to spot in the real world. Modeling is compromises, we do our best, but can't make everyone happy all of the time. Short answer:YES. I have to agree that matching any paint color from half century old photos, scanned with an unknown color profile is a challenge at best. But the geek in me would say that if you analyze the couple hundred images, taken at different angles and lighting conditions and they all look (mostly) black, they’re probably black. However the train spotter in me that watched these locomotives go by, frequently at closer range than the images for years, in my mind they’re black. Unfortunately I Can’t post my mind ( it would probably be disallowed by proboards anyway . ) só images will have to do. I know nothing about other roads, so I yield to superior knowledge. The one thing I promise I will NEVER ask for is the greenish, blueish black “New Image” color from the 1980s: rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5016560Mark |
|
|
|
Post by Hans Riddervold (AZL) on Mar 16, 2021 5:15:13 GMT -5
The CZ F3Bs had steam generators and I think the F7Bs that were purchased to match the FP7As had it too.
|
|
) MTL does some GREAT stuff...and then over-graffiti's it. Their Railbox weathering is phenomenal...and then they ruin by going over-the-top graffiti-wise. (for the record I don't mind graffiti but just the obnoxious full car stuff is just not EVERY car you see.)
