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Post by Greg Elmassian on Feb 18, 2015 22:34:46 GMT -5
Make it cost effective and as good as the mikade... you will sell more... And I want one.
Greg
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Post by ztrack on Feb 23, 2015 19:50:44 GMT -5
UPDATE - the count is now 25! There are 12 Daylight, 10 Black and 3 Freedom version reserved.
Rob
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Post by Rob Albritton on Feb 23, 2015 20:51:59 GMT -5
UPDATE - the count is now 25! There are 12 Daylight, 10 Black and 3 Freedom version reserved. Rob You're half way there. As a reminder, this is for a BRASS run of SP GS locomotives. A rough estimate of the price would be $1500 each. If we get up to 50 pre orders, then we would specify this project: -with a traction tire -electrical pick ups on the tender and locomotive -space in the locomotive for a DCC decoder and space for a speaker for sound -a high quality motor (Maxon or Faulhaber) |
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Post by bloodynose on Feb 24, 2015 0:14:08 GMT -5
UPDATE - the count is now 25! There are 12 Daylight, 10 Black and 3 Freedom version reserved. Rob You're half way there. As a reminder, this is for a BRASS run of SP GS locomotives. A rough estimate of the price would be $1500 each. If we get up to 50 pre orders, then we would specify this project: -with a traction tire -electrical pick ups on the tender and locomotive -space in the locomotive for a DCC decoder and space for a speaker for sound -a high quality motor (Maxon or Faulhaber) Rob, It looks like there is a bit of interest in a new run of the GS-3/4 and we just might make it with the latest details you have provided about the features it will have. My question is: were there any other railroads that used this prototype (skirted or non-skirted)? I understand (please correct me if I'm mistaken) that the SP version is a streamlined Pacific class loco... My point being that if there were some Eastern and Northern railroads that used a variation of this loco there would be a lot more interest if these road names could also be produced based on this model. This could be a really great Brass project if there were a way to have enough variations base on this platform. It would be a good addition to the AZL Brass steamers that until now have been exclusively UP and SP.
Mark
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Post by Rob Albritton on Feb 24, 2015 15:58:27 GMT -5
Rob, It looks like there is a bit of interest in a new run of the GS-3/4 and we just might make it with the latest details you have provided about the features it will have. My question is: were there any other railroads that used this prototype (skirted or non-skirted)? I understand (please correct me if I'm mistaken) that the SP version is a streamlined Pacific class loco... My point being that if there were some Eastern and Northern railroads that used a variation of this loco there would be a lot more interest if these road names could also be produced based on this model. This could be a really great Brass project if there were a way to have enough variations base on this platform. It would be a good addition to the AZL Brass steamers that until now have been exclusively UP and SP.
Mark
Hi Mark, It is not as simple as that. Hans did the work on the original GS project, but I do recall he said that the wheel sizes and dimensions do not match any other steam locomotive closely enough for us to produce anything other than the GS class within this project. Some other manufactures will cheat like crazy to "make it work" but at this price point we feel we need to make it as accurate as possible for the sake of our reputation. Almost all steam locomotives were tailor fit and custom ordered by individual railroads. There are a few exceptions to this: during the USRA era, there were hundreds of steam locomotives made to common plans. But even with this common plan scheme, only the Mikado 2-8-2 and USRA 0-8-0 switcher were made in significant quantities for multiple railroads. Thats why we made the Mikado as an injection project: lots of railroad had them. The Iconic steam locomotives were one of a kinds: NYC Hudsons, N&W "J", SP GS4 & AC-12 Cab Forwards, UP Challengers and Big Boys, PRR K4, etc. And sorry, but the GS is not a Pacific. A Pacific is a 4-6-2. The GS is a Northern 4-8-4. And not all Northerns are the same size. Best, -Rob |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 16:41:02 GMT -5
The Iconic steam locomotives were one of a kinds: NYC Hudsons, N&W "J", SP GS4 & AC-12 Cab Forwards, UP Challengers and Big Boys, PRR K4, etc. I'd still love that J! |
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Post by pmx on Feb 24, 2015 19:26:37 GMT -5
The GS is a Northern 4-8-4. And not all Northerns are the same size. And oh how I'd love to see one of those other Northerns in Z. Whether it be NP, Milwaukee Road (CMStP&P), C&NW, Soo (MStP&SSM), a Rock Island (CRI&P), or even a Delaware & Hudson (as the CRI&P had a class which strong resembled the D&H K-62s) . While many of which had similar driver sizes 75" +1" and a driver wheelbase close to 19.75' on average, they were custom/tailor fit to the individual railroads and thus had differing and distinct features that making it hard to work from a coming base. So like Robe said, these others aren't not closely enough for AZL to produce without having to cheat, which they strive hard not to do. ~Paul E. |
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Post by ztrack on Feb 24, 2015 22:12:33 GMT -5
Rob, It would be a good addition to the AZL Brass steamers that until now have been exclusively UP and SP.
Mark
Hi Mark, For the record... AZL has also released brass steam locomotives for the Rio Grande and 'cough' Clinchfield.... Rob |
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Post by bloodynose on Feb 25, 2015 0:23:17 GMT -5
Rob, It looks like there is a bit of interest in a new run of the GS-3/4 and we just might make it with the latest details you have provided about the features it will have. My question is: were there any other railroads that used this prototype (skirted or non-skirted)? I understand (please correct me if I'm mistaken) that the SP version is a streamlined Pacific class loco... My point being that if there were some Eastern and Northern railroads that used a variation of this loco there would be a lot more interest if these road names could also be produced based on this model. This could be a really great Brass project if there were a way to have enough variations base on this platform. It would be a good addition to the AZL Brass steamers that until now have been exclusively UP and SP.
Mark
Hi Mark, It is not as simple as that. Hans did the work on the original GS project, but I do recall he said that the wheel sizes and dimensions do not match any other steam locomotive closely enough for us to produce anything other than the GS class within this project. Some other manufactures will cheat like crazy to "make it work" but at this price point we feel we need to make it as accurate as possible for the sake of our reputation. Almost all steam locomotives were tailor fit and custom ordered by individual railroads. There are a few exceptions to this: during the USRA era, there were hundreds of steam locomotives made to common plans. But even with this common plan scheme, only the Mikado 2-8-2 and USRA 0-8-0 switcher were made in significant quantities for multiple railroads. Thats why we made the Mikado as an injection project: lots of railroad had them. The Iconic steam locomotives were one of a kinds: NYC Hudsons, N&W "J", SP GS4 & AC-12 Cab Forwards, UP Challengers and Big Boys, PRR K4, etc. And sorry, but the GS is not a Pacific. A Pacific is a 4-6-2. The GS is a Northern 4-8-4. And not all Northerns are the same size. Best, -Rob Rob,
Somewhere I read "Southern Pacific's GS-4 is a streamlined Northern class..." and my brain misquoted me when I was writing the message, non the less my goof. I am realizing that I have a lot to learn about not only the steamers (my favorites) but also the modern locos and rolling stock of today. This forum and all of its members are a wealth of information and knowledge that one cannot find anywhere else and I greatly appreciate everyone's assistance in helping me with my venture in creating something that I have dreamt of doing since I was a boy (my wife says I am still there). This is the first forum that I have ever joined and I really appreciate everyone's hospitality! You are all a great bunch of guys!!
I did run across some photos of a Western Pacific GS-6, it has the same streamlining shrouding along the top but I read that the drivers were 72" instead of the 80" GS-4 drivers, would that be a noticeable difference?
Thanks Mark
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Post by Rob Albritton on Feb 25, 2015 7:25:34 GMT -5
I did run across some photos of a Western Pacific GS-6, it has the same streamlining shrouding along the top but I read that the drivers were 72" instead of the 80" GS-4 drivers, would that be a noticeable difference? Unfortunately, yes - an 8" difference is very noticeable in Z scale - its only 1/32 of an inch, but in our scale you will see that in an instant because it is a 10% change, and that is more than enough for they eye to see and perceive. And thanks for the kind words - we're all here to share and enjoy our hobby. You guys make this fun. |
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Post by Hans Riddervold (AZL) on Feb 27, 2015 13:30:29 GMT -5
Hi,
Remember well the development of our first GS-3 and GS-4 locomotives. The Drivers were actually the main hurdle. Why? Look at prototype photos and notice how close they are. With Z scale flanges that poses a real problem. So it is give and take. We actually lengthened the locomotive with about 5% and reduced the drivers slightly. Since the flanges are large, the effect is not easily noticed. If we are lucky to produce a second batch of GS locomotives, I think we would be able to use different Drivers. I would really like to make the GS-6 as well, since WP had four of those. Not sure, but I think that SP did not paint the GS-6 in Daylight colors. If we get a solid 50 orders, we will probably make around 75 locomotives. The GS-3 would be left out this time since the Tender is different from that of the GS-4. If we can improve on our former design, we will.
Let us see where we end up! Sincerely, Hans
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Post by markm on Feb 27, 2015 22:10:20 GMT -5
Hans, Very much an unexpected surprise to read about interest in producing a GS-6. To get you started from the WP side, here's images of WP's six units: www.wplives.com/archives/steam/484/index.htmland a technical summary: www.wplives.com/diagrams/locomotives/1948/481-486.html I think you will have the same driver flange issue as the GS-4 only worst. The 73" wheels are on 78" centers. There may be a bit of wiggle room as the printed drawing I have (and not very clear in the digital image) puts the driver wheel size at 66" or 68". The WP units had the smoke diverters ("bat wings" or "elephant ears") which is different from SP and none of the SP patented equipment was installed. As far as I know, all the units produced were black with the aluminum smoke box. I was a bit troubled by the earlier driver size comments ("how could I not see the size difference?"). But from my fast research, it looks like for the most part, the GS-6 is a shrunk version of the GS-4 with the only major exception I saw that GS-6 cylinders were 2" larger. Mark |
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Post by bloodynose on Feb 27, 2015 23:55:57 GMT -5
Hi, Remember well the development of our first GS-3 and GS-4 locomotives. The Drivers were actually the main hurdle. Why? Look at prototype photos and notice how close they are. With Z scale flanges that poses a real problem. So it is give and take. We actually lengthened the locomotive with about 5% and reduced the drivers slightly. Since the flanges are large, the effect is not easily noticed. If we are lucky to produce a second batch of GS locomotives, I think we would be able to use different Drivers. I would really like to make the GS-6 as well, since WP had four of those. Not sure, but I think that SP did not paint the GS-6 in Daylight colors. If we get a solid 50 orders, we will probably make around 75 locomotives. The GS-3 would be left out this time since the Tender is different from that of the GS-4. If we can improve on our former design, we will. Let us see where we end up! Sincerely, Hans Hans,
This will be a pleasant surprise if AZL can produce both GS-4 and GS-6 brass locos! I am hoping that if you do produce the GS-6 that there will be both Western Pacific and Southern Pacific versions! I will change my wish list to 1 GS-4 Daylight and 1 SP GS-6 black.
Thanks, Mark
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Post by bloodynose on Feb 27, 2015 23:59:57 GMT -5
Hans, Very much an unexpected surprise to read about interest in producing a GS-6. To get you started from the WP side, here's images of WP's six units: www.wplives.com/archives/steam/484/index.htmland a technical summary: www.wplives.com/diagrams/locomotives/1948/481-486.html I think you will have the same driver flange issue as the GS-4 only worst. The 73" wheels are on 78" centers. There may be a bit of wiggle room as the printed drawing I have (and not very clear in the digital image) puts the driver wheel size at 66" or 68". The WP units had the smoke diverters ("bat wings" or "elephant ears") which is different from SP and none of the SP patented equipment was installed. As far as I know, all the units produced were black with the aluminum smoke box. I was a bit troubled by the earlier driver size comments ("how could I not see the size difference?"). But from my fast research, it looks like for the most part, the GS-6 is a shrunk version of the GS-4 with the only major exception I saw that GS-6 cylinders were 2" larger. Mark Mark,
From what you have talked about in the past, I would believe that you would like to model the Western Pacific so I hope that Hans has perked up your interest here!
Mark
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Post by mrja on Feb 28, 2015 20:32:31 GMT -5
How about we focus in trying to get enough orders for a new run of brass GS-4, as this thread was originally intended... instead of suddenly changing orders for another type of loco.
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