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Post by boxcarwilly on Oct 10, 2013 11:22:41 GMT -5
Oh, and BTW: yes CN and GT black and white coaches and RPOs are coming BUT only the paired window coach and only the RPOs - unless you want something else, but I could not find any evidence that CN ran heavyweight sleepers with black and white "noodle" paint. If you know of pictures, send me a link. If it checks out, we will make 'em
Rob: In regards to your quote above, if you put Canadian National Sleeper Cars in any search engine, you should come up with several links containing examples of CN black and white noodle paint sleepers and diners in both 4 and 6 wheel configurations but you really have to look for them. There are also a few examples of the open platform or rear deck of the observation/business/private/VIP car as well in both the green/black and the black/white noodle. Now I'm not sure if all the sleepers that you previously produced for the CN/GT are represented here, but I'm thinking that when Canadian National did their change overs, they had to have kept their best of the old and repainted them. Perhaps if you made some enquiries to Canadian National, they may be able to confirm this. Also I noticed that both Rivarossi and Rapido make the CN B/W noodle sleepers and diners in both 4 and 6 wheel configurations so if they are as keen on accuracy as AZL is, then these cars must have existed. You will probably find the same info for the CP maroon sleepers and diners et el as well by searching Canadian Pacific Sleeping Cars etc. All that aside, perhaps you can clear something up for me. If HW's have 6 wheel trucks, does that mean that the 4 wheel trucks are consistent with light weight cars?
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Post by BAZman on Oct 10, 2013 13:08:55 GMT -5
YES: C&O (Yellow/Blue) Southern Pacific (Pullman Green) NO: GN (Empire Builder Pullman Green) Wabash (Blue) Nickel Plate (Pullman Green) Chicago & Northwestern (Either Yellow/Green or Pullman Green - don't know yet) Southern (Pullman Green) L&N (Blue) Burlington (Green) Rio Grande (Silver & Orange) Milwaukee (Red/Orange) Northern Pacific (Two tone green or Pullman Green - havn't decided yet) CP (Maroon) MoPac (Eagle blue / white) ACL (Green) Robert Ray will buy the entire inventory of NP's I bought almost all of the SP and UP's numbers to make up any train, even diesel Excursions. I'm full
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Post by mzbringh on Oct 11, 2013 12:11:55 GMT -5
I don't really have any opinion on what to not release. My layout is too modern for any heavyweights. But I will get a Milwaukee Road heavy Mikado and it would be nice to be able to add some Milwaukee Road heavyweights to it. But it will be an excursion type of train and they usually run a mix of everything anyway. And if any CP maroon cars show up then I will not be able to say no to them either.
Thanks for releasing the Mikados and the heavyweights.
Mikael
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Post by Rob Albritton on Oct 11, 2013 13:29:47 GMT -5
First my apologies to both Robs for coming off like a jerk. Clearly my information was faulty and some of my comments were unfounded. I grovel and beg forgiveness. No worries. Remember, model railroading is FUN!!! Third, as for the CN wet noodle or B & W as I call them only having coaches and RPO's what you say Rob may in fact be true. I don't know for sure. I always thought that when CN changed colour scheme they just repainted all their green and black sleepers and diners as they did the coaches and baggage cars. I'll have to check that out. It seems rather strange that they would only repaint just two types of cars and not the rest. Very odd. I can understand the confusion. Before I started doing all this research, that would have made sense to me too, but here's the history: First, we made HEAVYWEIGHT Pullman cars. You can tell these care because they have Clerestory roofs and 6 wheel trucks. They were all made before WW2, and most before the Great Depression (think 1920s) You may be confusing our heavyweight cars for Pullman LIGHTWEIGHT cars - streamlined cars with 4 wheel trucks and round roofs. Sleeping cars were for premium passengers, while coach cars were, well, for coach! Guess what kind of equipment got upgraded first? (Hint: it was not coach) so those Pullman Heavyweight sleepers were being taken out of service as quickly as possible after WW2. By the 1960s, most of them were gone. The CN "Wet Noodle" logo was not created until 1961. Now I cannot say for sure that CN did not paint a Heavyweight Sleeping car in the black and white "wet noodle" scheme, but I have not found any evidence to date that one did exist. See cprailmmsub.blogspot.com/2011/03/happy-birthday-cn-wet-noodle.html for more info. So why do Baggage, Coaches, and RPOs? Well those were secondary cars, and they did keep on rolling into the 1960s (and with the baggage cars, into the 1980s!) The old Heavyweight designs were tough, rugged, and lasted a long time. Coaches on secondary routes were well served by Heavyweight cars built in the 1920s, and express and baggage really didn't voice an option as to the newness of their ride. Same with the RPO. The dining cars are another story: Because the kitchen equipment was very expensive compared to sleeping cars or coaches, Heavyweight Dining cars lasted longer than the sleeping cars - frequently well into the 1960s. Furthermore, because of the additional weight of the kitchen equipment, the Heavyweight car platform was actually very well suited for dining car use. The railroads would not have gained much efficiency by switching dining cars from heavyweight to lightweight platforms, so why not just keep the heavyweight dining cars rolling? Because they lasted longer, they also got more modern paint schemes. Make sense? Fourth, Mark I have tried numerous times to post pictures of passenger cars particularly the duplex sleeper cars of which I have spoken of as well as the business/private/tail/observation with platform car but every time I do I get a flag saying I can't because it's copy right material. I've even tried posting links to these pics as well but for some reason I get the same message so I just quit trying. Why don't you just post a link to the picture like I did above? If CN in the wet noodle B & W didn't have sleepers or diners in HW's perhaps they had them in light weights. If so, perhaps at some point down the road, AZL could manufacture a line of light weight cars in liveries like CN and CP. As I remember when I was a boy, CN and CP passenger trains lumbering through my town with a mixture of lightweight and heavyweight passenger cars. As I think back and it was so cool to see 4 and 6 wheel trucks on those cars. Never understood why then, but do now. I would love to have such a combination of passenger cars on my trains. That would be my wish list. Something else to consider. Other than the famous "name" trains (20th century limited, super chief, california zephyr, the canadian) MOST passenger trains ran with a healthy mix of lightweight and heavyweight cars with very mixed color schemes. But lightweight cars are a great idea! All that aside, perhaps you can clear something up for me. If HW's have 6 wheel trucks, does that mean that the 4 wheel trucks are consistent with light weight cars? Not 100%, but that's a pretty good clue - especially sleeping cars. Best, -Rob(A) AZL
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Post by Rob Albritton on Oct 11, 2013 13:31:38 GMT -5
Guys,
You have had an impact already.
Previously I was not planning on producing the C&O paint, but I'm going to add it to the list today.
Keep up the input and let's see what else gets added!!!
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Post by mgatdog on Oct 12, 2013 9:53:08 GMT -5
Do another run on the first run of B&O that a lot of us wasn't able to get . Bob
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Post by boxcarwilly on Oct 12, 2013 9:55:27 GMT -5
Rob:
I did see a picture of a CN wet noodle sleeping car on a website somewhere during my research. I'll have to spend some time and see if I can find it again. As for the link, I'll see if I can post that without getting yelled at. I also saw CP maroon duplex sleepers as well. I'll see if I can find some pics of those. Don't remember if I ever saw any in CN in either colour scheme.
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Post by boxcarwilly on Oct 14, 2013 10:25:39 GMT -5
Rob: You asked for a link to a site that has info on CN Noodle sleeper cars so you'd have a reference to see about production of same, well try this. You will find this helpful. There are all kinds of noodle cars on here, some of which I didn't even know existed like the scenic dome cars. In checking out this list, I have found that there is quite the variety of cars in the black and white noodle not just in sleeping cars, but also cars such as kitchen cars, lunch counter cars, and solarium cars. Quite interesting indeed. There is a combination of HW and LW cars on here as well as others which don't say what they are. As you get further on in this link, you'll find a list of CP maroon cars as well also HW and LW. Lots of photos and descriptions but no blueprints unfortunately. I hope this link will take you right to it. Enjoy. www.passcarphotos.info/Indices/CN1.htm
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Post by markm on Oct 14, 2013 12:51:59 GMT -5
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Post by jamestraction on Oct 14, 2013 14:04:42 GMT -5
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Post by jim29t on Oct 14, 2013 14:24:26 GMT -5
Hooray for the C&O. Chessie rides again. I can hardly wait. Thanks. Jim
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Post by boxcarwilly on Oct 14, 2013 14:36:49 GMT -5
Thanks Mark. I forgot the www. I've edited my post to include that so the link should work now.
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Post by Rob Albritton on Oct 17, 2013 10:27:30 GMT -5
Rob: You asked for a link to a site that has info on CN Noodle sleeper cars so you'd have a reference to see about production of same, well try this. You will find this helpful. There are all kinds of noodle cars on here, some of which I didn't even know existed like the scenic dome cars. In checking out this list, I have found that there is quite the variety of cars in the black and white noodle not just in sleeping cars, but also cars such as kitchen cars, lunch counter cars, and solarium cars. Quite interesting indeed. There is a combination of HW and LW cars on here as well as others which don't say what they are. As you get further on in this link, you'll find a list of CP maroon cars as well also HW and LW. Lots of photos and descriptions but no blueprints unfortunately. I hope this link will take you right to it. Enjoy. www.passcarphotos.info/Indices/CN1.htmI stand corrected: ONE! I found ONE HW Pullman sleeper! I was unaware that Pullman "The Pas" was pained in the noodle - apparently it was: There are quite a few pictures of Betterment cars: old Heavyweights that were upgraded, but unfortunately those don't work for our tooling. They kept the old 6 wheel trucks, but many many changes were made. Look at the roof - it's completely different than what we produced. Also, look at the windows. Many times they were modernized too. But at least ONE CN Heavyweight sleeper was indeed painted in the noodle. It's a start. Best, -Rob
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Post by boxcarwilly on Oct 17, 2013 10:48:17 GMT -5
Rob.
Just for my own curiosity, I'm going to try to make some enquiries to Canadian National's HQ to see if they indeed did repaint some of their other sleepers and diners. I'm of the opinion that they did, but pictures and descriptions of such don't appear on this list. This will undoubtedly take some time but IF I can get such information, I'll pass it on to you. I won't be able to copy pics and post them here. That seems to be a problem unfortunately, but if there is some kind of link to them, perhaps that will work. As an aside, on that list I found some very good shots of business/private/VIP/observation cars with open rear platforms which is one car I'd really like in both CN liveries as well as the CP to finish off my passenger trains. I didn't look at the roof lines and I'll just bet they won't fit in with your tooling. My luck for sure. However, IF they do, what are the chances that some of these will be produced in the future?
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Post by Rob Albritton on Oct 17, 2013 13:37:24 GMT -5
How do people feel about a "fantasy" set of Southern Pacific Heavyweights in the Orange and Red "Daylight" colors?
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