mark
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Posts: 2
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Post by mark on Aug 18, 2016 18:08:21 GMT -5
Greetings, I am planning to return to model railroading after a 20 year hiatus. I used to have a small N-scale layout, but am thinking about doing Z scale this time. I have in mind an around the walls layout in a spare 12' x 14' room, and think I could have a realistic scene with long trains using Z. So, how do I start learning and planning? Is there a book I should get? Does Z scale have DCC? What are the preferred brands of track? Any other suggestions for a beginner would be most welcome. Thanks,
Mark
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Post by Rob Albritton on Aug 18, 2016 19:43:37 GMT -5
Hi Mark, Welcome back to model railroads and especially to Z scale. I think the perimeter of a 12' x 14' room is perfect for Z scale and will allow you to create tons of realistic scenes - especially for long trains. You will probably need about 18" off each wall for a really good scene, and if you can do 30" off the walls for the turn around loops then you will be in great shape (you can still do plenty with less) To start planning I suggest a free planning program called SCARM www.scarm.info/index.php that will alow you to plan to your hearts delight. As learning, it all depends on how advanced you were with your N scale layout. The skills are the same in both N and Z, its just that Z lets you pack more into the same space. If you are a "snap" track type guy, then I recommend Rokuhan track www.rokuhan.com/english/ as they have the largest selection out there. If you do more advanced flex track, then you are in luck as Atlas has just announced that they will be releasing Z scale flex track in the near future. I dont think there are any Z specific books that are really applicable. I have always liked Dave Frary's books on scenery: www.mrscenery.com/ because his advice applies to all scales. For things like trees, just buy the smaller N scale trees and you will be fine - same with things like tunnel portals (frequently HO culverts work out fine) just think a little smaller. For electrical, its the same as other scales, but you can probably use a little smaller gauge wire as Z scale locomotives dont draw much current. Track cleaning is importnt in Z scale, but the good news is that it is not too complicated. After years Ive discovered that the best track cleaner is small squares of an old white t-shirt. Just rub the rails and the dirt comes off. If its really bad, a small ammont of rubbing alcohol or a light use of a bright boy will do the trick. That being said, Aztec makes a great track cleaning car in Z scale www.aztectrains.com/zscaletrackclean.htmlYes we have DCC in Z scale no problem! In fact it works just about the same a N scale. All of the locomotives we have made here at AZL in the past 5 years are all 12 volt compatible - thats the same as N scale, so you just set up everything like you are using N. All of our modern AZL locomotives also accept drop-in DCC decoders, as do many MicroTrains locomtoives. Lots of basic DCC sets are avalable - NCE makes a good one - but you might want to add a little extra short circuit protection to whatever DCC system you choose. I really like the DCC specialties PSX units www.dccspecialties.com/products/powershield_x.htm they have faster, more inteligent, short circuit protection than what is built into most DCC boosters. This is important for our smaller wheels and locos, but the price is reasonable at about $40. Phew! thats a lot, but I think you will find the community here happy to help you on your new adventure in Z scale. Best, -Rob(A) AZL
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Post by markm on Aug 18, 2016 23:57:26 GMT -5
Mark, Welcome to Z. There really isn't a lot of printed material in Z. I think you'll find browsing the threads here and the Z scale forums on trainboard.com and yahoo groups will answer most of your questions. The only book I know is "Greenberg's guide to Z." I can sell you my copy, but it's grossly out of date and you can find it online: www.guidetozscale.com/index.html You might also want to check out zscale.org . Z scale has a few warts, such a track interchangeability, but I can't think of many that can't be worked out. Probably the biggest wart is rolling stock availability. We're seeing more people like yourself moving into Z and product runs that used to stay on the shelf for years are now getting sold out in weeks, particularly if the road name contains "Pacific." I think Rob gave you a good start. I use and recommend the Rokuhan track, the mechanical elements are particularly good, although tie size and spacing is not really U.S. standard. I use MicroTrains track (and hopefully soon Atlas track) when I want the most prototypical U.S. look. One can also do hand laid track. I also use the Aztec track cleaning car and the NCE powercab and can recommend them. Hope this helps, Mark
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Post by dave on Aug 19, 2016 6:24:10 GMT -5
Good morning Mark,
If you have never done Z-scale, I would highly recommend that you just get your feet wet and give it a try by purchasing a small loop of track, a loco and some rolling stock. The reason for this is to just try it. Your room would be enormous for Z-scale but for long trains, perfect for what you want. I had done N-scale for many, many years and Z is different in many ways; not just being smaller. As Rob had mentioned, even with the very best of power packs and locomotives, track cleaning is very important in Z scale. Getting used to handling the locos and rolling stock is different and placing them on the track is different. The voltages used and speed of locomotives is different (not in a bad way, mind you). Lastly, Z-scale is higher cost than N or HO; probably on average, 40-50% higher. As others have mentioned, you can do DCC with Z-scale.
I am not sure what era you want to model; maybe modern if you want long trains. If modern is what you want, here is what I would recommend that you get to try it out. You will have about $400 in this setup.
AZL SD70ACe locomotive 4 Pack of AZL Coalporters, Hoppers or 23,000 Gallon Tank Cars Rokuhan 270 degree curved track (you will need 12 pieces for a circle) Rokuhan 220mm straight track (4 pcs to a package) Kato power pack (you will need to be careful about your voltage with this, but I just made a mark on mine and don't exceed it when using it)
There are several Z-scale vendors that I use and you can gather good information about what is available from them.
zscalemonster.com z-gauge.com us-zscale.com modeltrainstuff.com needtrains.com normstrainworld.com
Dave
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Post by zdave on Aug 19, 2016 10:25:01 GMT -5
... I use and recommend the Rokuhan track, the mechanical elements are particularly good, although tie size and spacing is not really U.S. standard. I use MicroTrains track (and hopefully soon Atlas track) when I want the most prototypical U.S. look. One can also do hand laid track. I also use the Aztec track cleaning car and the NCE powercab and can recommend them. Hope this helps, Mark The Rokukhan track is great for reliable ops but I've made my layout with the MicroTrains track, primarily to get the more prototypical U.S. look, as Mark mentioned. Just beware if you go with the MicroTrains track, you will most likely have to rework the turnouts to get them to work reliably. It's not that hard to do and it's a shame it needs to be done but my layout works well after the modifications. Check-out this thread for some tips: www.azlforum.com/thread/392/locos-stalling-on-turnoutsI also love the little Aztec track cleaning car. It's well worth the money. AZL has REALLY brought Z scale to life. Their locos are fantastic and beautiful! I love the new SD70ACe's. AZL has done a fantastic job with the NS and UP Heritage units. If you're into UP, get your pre-order in for any remaining Heritage units. Enjoy!
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Post by zscalehobo on Aug 19, 2016 10:51:53 GMT -5
Greetings, Is there a book I should get? Does Z scale have DCC? What are the preferred brands of track? Any other suggestions for a beginner would be most welcome. Thanks, Mark In addition to the other resources presented here, I might suggest bookmarking and studying David Karp's "Do It Yourself In Z Scale." His site has been a great starter resource over the years. www.zscale.org/Also, for power pack discussion, check through the archives here at this forum, but here is one in particular I just found: www.azlforum.com/thread/297/power-controllersCost-wise, it makes sense to use an N scale power pack if you are transitioning from N. But be careful to not use N controllers on all z locomotives. I would hate to spend $200 on a locomotive and then burn it out or void the AZL warranty. Seems wise to spend the extra $45 to get a z-rated controller.
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mark
New Member
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Post by mark on Aug 19, 2016 11:02:17 GMT -5
Many thanks for this helpful information. I have in mind Southern Railway and Illinois Central 1950s era passenger operation over long, scenic routes and am not so much interested in industries or switching. Will I have trouble finding rolling stock? I have now downloaded SCARM, and this looks to be a good program for track planning. 18 inches off of the walls sound like a good idea, Rob. Any suggestions for minimum radius for nice looking passenger operation?
Mark
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Post by smr on Aug 19, 2016 11:26:44 GMT -5
Hi Mark, Welcome back to model railroads and especially to Z scale. I recommend Rokuhan track www.rokuhan.com/english/ Phew! thats a lot, but I think you will find the community here happy to help you on your new adventure in Z scale. Best, -Rob(A) AZL Hi Mark, I would recommend that you build your first Z-piece with Rokuhan tracks. They are robust, easy to install and optically acceptable (take a look at one of my layouts and judge yourself: azlforum.com/post/7221/thread ) I am happy to help out with any kind of advise when it comes to land scaping. In the meanwhile, you find a lot in my thread, e.g. about trees, water, hills and dunes and many more: azlforum.com/post/4259/threadBest, Sven
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Post by Admin on Aug 19, 2016 11:38:12 GMT -5
Setting up a Z scale wiki site might be something to think about.
John
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Post by markm on Aug 19, 2016 11:57:02 GMT -5
Mark, AZL produced E8s for both roads that would be appropriate for passenger service. I'm not familiar with what these roads ran for passenger cars but MTL produces unpainted streamline cars that you could trick out and AZL has a number of heavyweight cars that may be appropriate.
At 18 inches for bench work, you would be limited to 220mm curves at the ends. If you can spare the room at the ends, I'd encourage 24 inches, then you can use broader curves. Using Rokuhan track that would be 245 or 270mm. I think the passenger trains look much better on >220mm curves, although the rolling stock will run well down to 195mm.
Mark
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