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Post by christoff on Apr 25, 2016 14:28:24 GMT -5
So now the only challenge is were to find chassis only. Great work boxcarwilly that's really good to no I've wanted to know the answer to that for the exact same reason you wanted to know I think te same locos even lol good old CN f7 and probably the maroon CP f7 also.
I'll give you a call one night this week so I can come over and check out the loco swap I also hatched a deal for some z scale from a local collector and ended up with more MTL track for you
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Post by tinytrainer on Apr 25, 2016 19:22:49 GMT -5
A very dumb question from a basic n00b. Why would one want to put an MTL F7 body on an AZL chassis? Coupler choices? Isn't AZL's F3 a superior body? Is one needing an F7 instead of an F3, or is the F7 already weathered to one's liking???
I'm in the process of selling my MTL F7s. The growlers have served me well, but the bodies don't appear to have the detail that the new AZL F3s have, and after my experience with other AZL locos, I'm sure the engines are superior. And the F3 paint will match my other AZL UP engines.
*scratches head* Dis n00bie is cunfuzzed.
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Post by dave on Apr 25, 2016 20:22:45 GMT -5
tinytrainer,
People wanting to make the switch is because of the vast number of roadnames available in MTL that have not been produced by AZL. My example is the Burlington Route greyback freight scheme. I think the other guys have some Canadian roads.
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Post by boxcarwilly on Apr 25, 2016 20:40:08 GMT -5
First of all Tiny, only two of my entire fleet of engines are weathered and I bought them like that. I prefer to have mine look like they just came out of the factory. Secondly, my F7's have never run properly right from the git go and every attempt to fix them by MTL and independent sources have failed miserably, and on top of that, they all WOBBLE. The AZL F3 far surpasses the F7 in every aspect including pulling power and quietness. Thirdly, I'm not going to wait for AZL to produce the F3's that I'm looking to add to my fleet, we've all seen that they can't stick to a run of anything for very long, example the heavy weight passenger cars. So rather then wait for something that will most likely never come, I'm doing the next best thing. Fourth, it doesn't matter about the coupler choice, both MTL's and AZL's couplers are not reliable, they are simply too weak. Fifth, if I choose to put MTL bodies on AZL chassis, that's MY business. Finally, don't scratch your head too deep Tiny, you might knick some of that grey matter. I trust that clears up any CONFUSSION.
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Post by boxcarwilly on Apr 25, 2016 20:46:37 GMT -5
So now the only challenge is were to find chassis only. Great work boxcarwilly that's really good to no I've wanted to know the answer to that for the exact same reason you wanted to know I think te same locos even lol good old CN f7 and probably the maroon CP f7 also. Chris: AZL doesn't sell the chassis alone. I checked today into that possibility. Another short sighted decision by AZL. Since I'm going to proceed with this project, I'll have to purchase three sets complete with liveries I don't want, then remove the bodies and throw them away or something. It will finally be just grand to have all my F7's working properly and pulling like crazy EVEN IF THEY ARE ON F3 CHASSIS!!!!!!
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Post by christoff on Apr 25, 2016 21:11:24 GMT -5
Don't throw them away I'm sure someone on ebay would pay you somthing for them or perhaps swap the azl f3 body onto the shitty growler chassis. And just have them sit in that amazing yard you have planned you know static models just to look pretty? Or even a train scrap yard we've all seen pics of salvage train yards on google while looking for our favorite classic locos. If you do decide your just going to toss the old mtl chassis I could really use one for my old CP f7 from the 2003 run of growlers it was my first z scale loco! I saved up for it and bought it with my own money at 10 years old. Unfortunately the brushes only last so many years befor they burn out. All I'm saying willy you got options if you don't want to waste them.
I'm super excited to see that CN f7 pulling the new CN streamliners it's going to look freaking fantastic on that layout of yours
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Post by christoff on Apr 25, 2016 21:30:13 GMT -5
And one more question about the swap boxcarwilly did you have to make any modifications for the mtl headlight to work on the azl F3 chassis ?
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Post by tinytrainer on Apr 25, 2016 22:36:46 GMT -5
*slaps self upside head*
Thanks, guys. It all makes so much more sense when you explain your reasoning.
This n00bie just didn't have a clue.
Thanks again.
And boxcarwilly: I asked the question as a n00b asking answers. Perhaps I'm in the wrong group. Maybe the group is only for long time PRO z scalers?
Your comment:
"if I choose to put MTL bodies on AZL chassis, that's MY business. Finally, don't scratch your head too deep Tiny, you might knick some of that grey matter. I trust that clears up any CONFUSSION."
Sorry if I pissed you off. Not sure why that brought out such a negative response. I thought the AZL group was here to get questions answered, not to get slammed big time.
My apologies.
By the way, it's CONFUSION.
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Post by dave on Apr 26, 2016 7:21:41 GMT -5
Tinytrainer,
Please stick around. The vast majority of people here are a great help, especially for beginners. I am pretty new myself and all of my questions I have posted have been answered. Keep asking the questions.
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Post by boxcarwilly on Apr 26, 2016 10:43:35 GMT -5
1. Chris, the positioning of the headlight is not a problem. They line up perfectly. 2. Chris, I get where you're going with the MTL chassis and you're more then welcome to one or more, but I going to give one to MR. Fixit who lives down the street from me. He's the guy at the Supertrain show who fixes and cleans engines for people there. He's never worked on a Z scale engine before so I thought I'd give him one of my MTL engines to experiment with. As for the bodies I will not be using, selling then on Ebay I don't think would work. How many people would buy one without the chassis to go in it. If you want them, they are yours. 3. Tiny, it was the way your phrased your questions that I took issue with. Your welcome for the info and sorry if I came across as terse. Dave is right about lots of help here. I've taken advantage of it many times. As for the comment about scratching your head, that was meant as a joke.
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Post by christoff on Apr 26, 2016 21:43:27 GMT -5
Boxcarwilly I will take both an A and a B unit if thats ok I'd really love to see that old engine growl back to life and the B units from that run were never powered to begin with
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Post by nscaler711 on Apr 29, 2016 5:10:34 GMT -5
A very dumb question from a basic n00b. Why would one want to put an MTL F7 body on an AZL chassis? Coupler choices? Isn't AZL's F3 a superior body? Is one needing an F7 instead of an F3, or is the F7 already weathered to one's liking??? I'm in the process of selling my MTL F7s. The growlers have served me well, but the bodies don't appear to have the detail that the new AZL F3s have, and after my experience with other AZL locos, I'm sure the engines are superior. And the F3 paint will match my other AZL UP engines. *scratches head* Dis n00bie is cunfuzzed. Well to be honest another reason why you'd switch chassis is because a F3 an F7 are quite different beasts... That and it just depends on what your prototype ran as well... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F3en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F7I don't know if its stated in either page but I believe the rear section of the roof has a different contour as well.
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Post by markm on Apr 29, 2016 9:12:50 GMT -5
There are actually a lot of differences between the F3 & F7 and even between the "model year" typically described as phases. These differences are as major as different grillwork and dynamic braking ventilation to the shape of windows and door frames. The Wikipedia articles are actually rather light on details. If anyone is interested I'd suggest Model Railroaders "Modelers Guide to F units" (Oct 2006) as a good summary of differences. BTW: F3 Phase IV and F7 Phase I, were externally identical.
Another good reason for making the switch is DCC. The AZL chassis is easy to DCC, the MTL, well let's just call it challenging.
Mark
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Post by boxcarwilly on May 2, 2016 11:52:54 GMT -5
All very valid points to be sure, but my reason for switching is that AZL engine runs so much better and quieter then the MTL coffee grinders. The A and B units run identically which is something the MTL A's and B's do not. And the AZL's don't wobble. MTL look like their drunk all the time. I have 3 MTL F7 sets and each of them wobble. It's horrible. At least for me, it matters little that I'm putting and F7 body on an F3 chassis, once it's done you'd never know the different anyway, but it all comes down to performance and for what I need them to do, I need excellent performers and MTL's just don't cut it.
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Post by dave on May 2, 2016 13:01:31 GMT -5
Willy...can you post some pictures of the MTL F7 shells on the AZL F3 chassis? Did you have to do any shimming or anything for a nice fit? Is making this swap something you would recommend to others?
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