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Post by BAZman on Jul 5, 2015 2:01:58 GMT -5
Since the F3's are starting to come out, references for adding details, weathering or scenes. Starting with the Santa Fe's. Then ATSF Historical Society has some references: www.atsfrr.net/resources/funits/www.atsfrr.net/resources/funits/f3-pas.htmTheir quarterly magazine has a *lot* of color images in them and back issues are available for purchase. I am looking for the F3's in color, like the FT's are in this quarter's issue. |
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Post by charlie on Jul 14, 2015 13:52:47 GMT -5
Hello hello,
Does anyone have details about the D&RGW F3? I can't find if 552 AB and 554 AB did run together as ABBA set and if they pulled passenger light or heavyweight cars.
They did run together after 1950 when they got renumbered and repainted orange and silver (as found in the 'Morning Sun Books- Rio Grande'), but I did not see them in the pre-50's scheme (black and yellow) as proposed by AZL.
Just because I bought the 552 AB set and I hesitate buying the 554 AB set.
Thanks!
Charlie
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Post by markm on Jul 14, 2015 17:11:05 GMT -5
Charlie, I'm a WP guy and my interests in the D&GRW don't go much beyond their relationships with WP & GWR. However, I am aware of F3 ABBA units in the AZL paint being used on their line for the heavyweight Exposition Flyer: www.drgw.org/data/passenger/Expo.htm Beyond that, I think you'd have a hard time linking these road numbers to a particular train or consist. You'd have to be real lucky to find an image or a railfan's record of a consist. Good luck. Hope this helps, Mark |
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Post by amtk908 on Jul 14, 2015 18:03:52 GMT -5
Just one note on the photo in Mark's link. The units in the photo are FTs not F3s. Not to say that the F3s may not have been used at some point though on the Flyer. The F3s came on the property in November 1946 and the Exposition Flyer was still running though March of 1949. D&RGW 540-551 A-D were FTs and the 552-554 A-D were F3s.
Regards!
Cliff
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Post by markm on Jul 14, 2015 18:38:41 GMT -5
Cliff,
Thanks. Wrong 1948 info. Unfortunately, my regular PC got scrambled and I'm working from a backup. The image I'm still looking for is of the Flyer in 1948 testing the CZ cars as they were delivered. So look for an image with a dome car among the heavyweights and F3s up front.
Mark
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Post by amtk908 on Jul 14, 2015 20:51:49 GMT -5
Mark,
Yeah, I think I remember the shot; if I recall correctly it was a Glenwood Canyon shot.
I'm thinking Denver Public Library collections?
Thanks,
Cliff
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Post by markm on Jul 14, 2015 23:15:00 GMT -5
Cliff,
The library seems right. I've basically only done there and drgw.org for my info, and the library seems to always change and my bookmarks never work there. Seems you have a much better background than I on the D&RGW. Any other sites you could recommend.
Getting back to the thread, I like using thedieselshop.us for general info and disposition of just about every diesel loco ever built. There are typos in the data but generally they jump out at you.
Mark
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Post by charlie on Jul 15, 2015 4:05:30 GMT -5
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Post by amtk908 on Jul 15, 2015 14:54:05 GMT -5
Mark and Charlie, One other D&RGW site is www.drgw.net. They have, what seems to be, some pretty accurate data. As for the ABCD suffix, I believe prior to renumbering the units did indeed include the suffix in the road number that was carried on the rear of the carbody sides just below the grillwork. The suffix would have needed to appear somewhere on the exterior so, if for no other reason, that shop and servicing forces could positively identify a specific unit. It was also generally considered that a unit's "complete" road number be visible somewhere on the exterior as a condition of an equipment trust or lease. It may be in very small lettering somewhere but most railroads units included such "complete" unit numbers. Unfortunately, I am not a big follower of D&RGW units so I do not have a wealth of photos or any lettering diagrams or the like in my collection. Depending on what time frame you are modeling, you are certainly before the units renumbering, it is rather likely that the "sets" would have been broken-up over time so one could have a mix of 552 and 554 ABCD units operating together. Unlike most FT AB sets the F3s had couplers and could have been easily separated and combined. I haven't see a high enough resolution photo of the AZL F3 but it appears that they have a road number with suffix high on the rear carbody side. One of the AZL guys or another owner could tell us that for sure. Regards, Cliff |
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Post by Hans Riddervold (AZL) on Jul 15, 2015 15:37:46 GMT -5
As far as I can remember, I could not get a good photo how D&RGW put the road number on the F3Bs. Sure it is there, but in Z scale this detail is close to impossible to detect. Did not find it on our final artwork. Sincerely, Hans (AZL)
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Post by charlie on Jul 16, 2015 3:56:26 GMT -5
Ok, so I may better go for a second set of 552 AB to make a ABBA set looking like a 552A, 552B, 552C 552D.
Thank you
Charles
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Post by markm on Jul 16, 2015 13:09:48 GMT -5
Getting back to Charlie's question, I've found photo evidence that 552A (as 5521) lead an ABBA set pulling the CZ. It actually came as a surprise as I accustomed to the gold/silver paint on the CZ. Also, I had some time to research the road numbers. Not an easy task, particularly in the bumblebee paint. What I think I know is that the units as delivered used a mid body plate, didn't use the letter suffix on the A units. Its unclear how or if the B units were numbered. www.drgw.net/gallery/v/DRGWDieselContainer/F3s/DRGW5531/drgw-5553a-unknown-_unknown_-000.jpg.htmlThe two porthole modification (as modelled) was probably done in 1948. By 1951 both A and B units were numbered in the locations modelled with 4 digit road numbers. It's suggested that the 1948 remodel probably moved the road numbers, but it's unclear how they were numbered in the 1948-1951 interval. Mark |
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Post by charlie on Jul 16, 2015 14:11:50 GMT -5
You're right Mark, all F3 pictures I found of 552 553 and 554 (in black and yellow), there is a large plate with the road number on the side between the 2 portholes of A-units (not represented on AZL F3s), but not on B-units. But as there were 2 front units (A & D) and 2 middle units (B & C) using road number 552, as seen below, I will go for a second set of 552 AB units, to model a ABCD train  RoadNumber BuilderDate LaterNumber DateRenumbered DRGW 552A Nov 1946 DRGW 5521 1950 DRGW 552D Nov 1946 DRGW 5524 1950 DRGW 552B Nov 1946 DRGW 5522 1950 DRGW 552C Nov 1946 DRGW 5523 1950 Just hope there will be California Zephyr coaches from this era (pre 1950) and used by D&RGW! Charlie |
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Post by amtk908 on Jul 16, 2015 19:19:42 GMT -5
Getting back to Charlie's question, I've found photo evidence that 552A (as 5521) lead an ABBA set pulling the CZ. It actually came as a surprise as I accustomed to the gold/silver paint on the CZ. Also, I had some time to research the road numbers. Not an easy task, particularly in the bumblebee paint. What I think I know is that the units as delivered used a mid body plate, didn't use the letter suffix on the A units. Its unclear how or if the B units were numbered. www.drgw.net/gallery/v/DRGWDieselContainer/F3s/DRGW5531/drgw-5553a-unknown-_unknown_-000.jpg.htmlThe two porthole modification (as modelled) was probably done in 1948. By 1951 both A and B units were numbered in the locations modelled with 4 digit road numbers. It's suggested that the 1948 remodel probably moved the road numbers, but it's unclear how they were numbered in the 1948-1951 interval. Mark Mark, you are correct that they did not use the suffix on the "billboard" numbers. The road number that I was referring to was in the upper rear side area of the carbody just below the grill. In your referenced these is some indistinguishable lettering just below the upper stipe at the rear of the carbody. Everything that I have, which admittedly is not a lot, indicates a small two line lettering in that area D&RGW and the unit number with the suffix. I'm still looking through my library, as I know I have seen it somewhere; the problem is too many books. :-) Regards, Cliff |
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Post by charlie on Jul 19, 2015 14:18:52 GMT -5
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