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Post by tjdreams on Jul 14, 2024 9:34:19 GMT -5
After a 6 week delay The TCS (Train Control Systems Inc) AZL2D5 decoder (TCS #1561) for the AZL SD40-2 is finally reaching the consumers hands. This new Decoder has a KA-N1 Keepalive built in, 3 LED's on board and solder pads for 2 more. And it is attached with 4 screws = No more loose boards. I'm listing some links to the Decoder that I highly recommend you read before you attempt to install this Decoder. link to the decoder on the TCS websitelink to Installation Documentation Link to Decoder Literaturelink to TCS Comprehensive Programming Guide After Reading through the instructions one might think installing one of these decoders should be a breeze. But NO its not.TCS If your reading this you may want to do a 2nd Recall and Redesign.  Circled in red AS seen in this picture of the Factory light board the top end of the Motor contact tabs go through the board and extend above the top of it.  And here we see how the motor contact tabs sit above the top of the chassis with the factory light board removed. Sorry for the Crappy pictures but its the best i can get with AZL Forums photo size restrictions |
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Post by tjdreams on Jul 14, 2024 9:48:48 GMT -5
After adding the recommended Kapton tape to the TCS Decoder i installed it per the instructions and did my usual continuity checks before placing it on the track and applying power. In doing so i found that the motor tabs were making contact the chassis. After investigating I realized that the motor contact tabs had not come up through the holes on the Decoder.  After removing the decoder I found that the motor contact tabs had been pushed down and were making contact with the chassis  |
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Post by tjdreams on Jul 14, 2024 10:09:16 GMT -5
 With the contact tab pushed down it forces it to spread at the bottom and make contact with the chassis. additionally in this case the tab also moved outward causing it to contact the side of the chassis as well. Again sorry for the crappy pictures. Applying power to the decoder with the motor contact tab making contact with the chassis as seen here can and will short out or even destroy the decoder. Additional investigation I used a set of machinist gauge pins to check the motor tab hole sizes on both the decoder and the factory board and found the hole in the decoder to be 0.032" and the hole in the factor board to be slightly larger at 0.035" Now one would not think 0.002" of a inch to make a difference but apparently it dose. |
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Post by tjdreams on Jul 14, 2024 10:32:26 GMT -5
My firs thought was to enlarge the hole in the decoder. Using a Micro, Round, Tapered, Diamond reamer I stuck it in each of the motor contact holes from the bottom side and gave it a couple turns while applying light pressure to open up the hole.  With the holes enlarged i tried reinstalling the decoder but the motor tabs still didn't want to come up through the holes as they should. At this point i went and got one of the Zmodell SD40-2 decoders and took a close look at it. As they dropped right on in place with no problems. A side by side comparison quickly revealed the difference The Zmodel decoder on the bottom has a larger Oval shaped hole which allowed the motor contact tabs to slip right in place  I thought about trying to use the reamer to turn the holes on the TCS into ovals like on the Zmodell But viewing it under the microscope I could see that the brass contact ring was too thin and any additional reaming would completely remove the contact area. |
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Post by tjdreams on Jul 14, 2024 10:49:20 GMT -5
Well my next thought was if i can't make the holes bigger maybe I can squeeze the tabs and make them thinner. So i gabbed a small pair of pliers as gave them a squeeze. That turned out to be a bad idea as i guess i squeezed just a little too hard complete snapping 1/2 of the contact tab off on one side.  Then again At least the tab sticks up though the hole in the board and dose not make contact with the chassis in the process. Guess i can just solder it in place. But these are supposed to be drop in decoders. Not Brake the contact and solder to make it work. |
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Post by tjdreams on Jul 14, 2024 11:14:06 GMT -5
ON to my next Idea with a different chassis. I used 2 pieces of fishing line and threaded one each through the loop at the top of the contact tab then threaded the ends through the holes on the board that i had lightly reamed. Next I set the board in place and started a couple screws. With the help of a friend I held the chassis down and pulled up on the fishing line while he slowly pushed down on the board and tightened the screws. With a fair amount of force i was able to pull the tabs up through he holes.   Once the tabs were up through the holes as they should be i pulled the fishing line out. Note that the Decoder board is a little thicker than the factory board so the tabs do not stick up as high but they do stick up above the top of board. Checking it with a meter did not reveal any shorts. And with that my hobby time is done for this weekend Test running will have to wait for next weekend. |
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Post by BAZman on Jul 14, 2024 21:57:43 GMT -5
I’m driving but pull this link. share.icloud.com/photos/0d5w9OvOq03nwBOCM-hJtxPNgI don’t have my TCS decoder yet, should be tomorrow next day. It’s all good for Alex due the oval. But your motor contacts seem to be much broader (front back overhead loop and not as narrow, pinched like the later releases from AZL where you did not have to put solder and those contact plates on the if you strip them off. |
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Post by tjdreams on Jul 15, 2024 4:38:00 GMT -5
Jeff you are Right the contacts in your pictures do look narrower than the ones I have here. These 2 CSX loco's and the TCS decoders were sent to me by a customer who couldn't get them to work. He said after he installed the first one it didn't work so he took it back off saw the contact was bent and sent them to me to try and fix/install for him. I haven't used solder on any of them yet.
I used Alex's Z modell decoders in mine and they dropped right on and ran fine. I will pull the decoders off one of them and do a side by side comparison of the contact size when I get home tonight.
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Post by husafreak on Sept 18, 2024 10:41:37 GMT -5
Thank you for your helpful post tjdreams Is there anything to add to this thread yet regarding installation or running characteristics? I have ordered a pair of SD40-2's and I need to choose a DCC board. For a drop in solution I only know of this AZL2D5 board and the Zmodell board (which is no doubt cream of the crop but also quite a bit more expensive). In the past I had an unsatisfactory running experience with TCS drop in boards in my AZL ES44AC locos that was ultimately solved by replacing them with Digitrax boards. I do not want to go through that again. But I would like the savings if the end result is a good running loco. |
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Post by tjdreams on Sept 18, 2024 17:46:32 GMT -5
husafreak Sorry I don't have any updates at this point in time.
Other than a very short test run to make sure they worked before packing them away in storage, I haven't had time to do anything else with these since my last post.
I did pickup a couple of the TCS AZL2D5 decoders to put in a pair of my SD40-2's to do a side by side test run comparison but again I haven't had time to install them or work on much of anything Model Train wise all summer.
Sometimes Life just gets in the way of "Hobby Time".
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Post by husafreak on Oct 8, 2024 16:24:58 GMT -5
I received a pair of AZL BNSF SD40-2 locos and TCS AZL2D5 decoders (thanks Frank!) and got them running today, here is what I can contribute. First I had the locos running well and broken in on stock DC. One was fine out of the box, the other had way too much grease and this was causing power pickup problems but after cleaning it runs fine. The railings on this loco had inadequate glue and were partially falling off so I resecured them. On to the DCC installation. One of the locos was very easy, the TCS AZL2D5 board dropped right over the motor contacts. The other loco's motor contacts were too wide at the top, at the bend, the radius was too large to fit through the holes in the board as shown in tjdreams pictures above. If your TCS AZL2D5 does not want to sit level on the chassis, if it wants to sit at an angle and springs back up after you push it down, then you have this issue. I was able to (very carefully) pinch the motor contacts below the bend and and then they slipped through the holes in the board. Thank you for calling this to our attention tjdreams! I used very fine pointed pliers and squeezed as low below the bend as I could and avoided breaking them. So one AZL loco was perfect, very easy, and the other required a lot of work. I did a quick set up to assign long addresses, and I change CV61=0 and CV3/4=2 on all my locos. I had a learning experience with this loco. The TCS AZL2D5 has two LED's facing forward, by default the upper LED "FOF" goes on and off with direction of travel but on the AZL BNSF SD40-2 the upper LED is blocked off with the body in place. It is necessary to have the lower LED "F1" operating to see forward direction lighting. Set CV51=0, CV33=4, and CV35=1 to have the "Headlight/0" button turn the fwd/rev lighting function on. Thank You to the fine phone tech support at TCS, they helped me with the lighting CV's required for this particular loco and we spoke about the variances in the AZL motor wire contacts. I sent them some pictures and they may be able to add some information to their already very good documentation. Attachments:
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