|
|
Post by nikdog on Mar 29, 2024 20:09:19 GMT -5
So I acquired the AZL UP GP7 stater set and a AZL SP GP38-2. (ZTrack if your monitoring this forum and that's why I got a fully SP freight consist, thank you. Otherwise, happy coincidence.) I also got 2 TCS AZL4 DCC decoders. Last night I finally got around to installing one of the decoders. I used the, basically shelved until more track arrives, GP7 as the first test subject. After watching a ZTrack video on how to get the shell off (because I got stumped on that disassembly š
), I pulled the analogue board and installed the AZL4. Then just like any decoder install, I put it on the track open for testing. First go, the variable transformer went into short protection. Reseated the decoder PCB, then on the lowest output voltage it took off like a race horse. No change in speed with variation of voltage output. It would also only go in one direction regardless of the polarity sent. Reseated the decoder PCB again after fiddling with the motor tabs, got intermittent short protection or full speed go. Fiddled with the PCB some more, and I eventually got it to light up in the correct directions but no movement. With a bunch more fiddling, that was the best I got. I should note the AZL4 PCB never sat as nice as the analogue PCB. Decided to put back in the analogue PCB to make sure the unit was still functioning properly. After switching back, only the lighting worked, no movement from the motor.
I presume I have unfortunately burned out a brand new motor. It makes me wonder if I was supposed to do some calibration with a DCC controller before using the decoder's DC [Fallback] Mode. The TCS instructions are unfortunately vague. Mostly marketing, instructions to look up installation on their website, and a CV breakdown. The online installation instructions are straight forward, but lack any technical details on testing and operation. Just a, here's how to put it in, you're done.
So I'm pretty sure I'm out a motor. Haven't checked to see if it's magically started working after sitting. I doubt it has. Is there anything I should try/check before contacting AZL for a replacement motor? I'm now extremely weary of putting a decoder in the GP38. Anyone know if there are some undocumented steps to the AZL4 decoder I needed to do, or somehow missed?
|
|
|
|
Post by deon4141 on Mar 30, 2024 0:31:51 GMT -5
Some more clarity please. Did you fit the decoder then ran it on a dc transformer not dcc and if so why would you want to do that? What voltages?
|
|
|
|
Post by ptitrainrouge on Mar 30, 2024 1:20:24 GMT -5
may be the decoder tabs were in contact with the loco frame (instant short cut): you have to install a isolation paper on the frame
before throwing the motor, test it with a 9v battery and to wires
|
|
|
|
Post by bapakbob on Mar 30, 2024 3:08:32 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by oldgrog on Mar 30, 2024 4:11:01 GMT -5
Crucial factor is the voltage. The UP GP7 is from the first batch with 4-digit reference numbers. These had 8 volt motors. Using a transformer/controller from another scale with a more ānormalā 12 volt rating will cook them. I do not know if replacement motors for these early engines are available.
|
|
einot
Engineer
Posts: 102
|
Post by einot on Mar 30, 2024 5:47:24 GMT -5
Hi! Sorry to hear that.
Iād do. 9 volt battery test as well. Hook the battery to a couple of wires for easy testing.
Also in the future, consider using a multimeter to check for shorts before connecting to power.
Hope you can get a replacement motor.
BR,
-Eino
|
|
|
|
Post by nikdog on Mar 30, 2024 13:24:21 GMT -5
Some more clarity please. Did you fit the decoder then ran it on a dc transformer not dcc and if so why would you want to do that? What voltages? Correct, for testing purposes. I always test on Analogue Fallback Mode first (with the exception of MƤrklin DELTA to MƤrklin mfx+ conversions, mostly because I don't have a pre-1990s MƤrklin AC Transformer). I was also waiting on the DC-DC Step Down Transformer for Z DCC and additional track to even make DCC worth it. I've never had a problem with Analogue Fallback Mode, so I figured I'd be prepared for the additional hardware to arrive. Since the GP7 came with a nice little instruction booklet warning that, "The Faulhaber motor is rated to 8 volts." I had measured the track voltage with my multimeter, and denoted where 8VDC was on the Rokuhan Train Controller. Avoiding exceeding that with both my GP7 and GP38-2.
may be the decoder tabs were in contact with the loco frame (instant short cut): you have to install a isolation paper on the frame before throwing the motor, test it with a 9v battery and to wires Hi! Sorry to hear that. Iād do. 9 volt battery test as well. Hook the battery to a couple of wires for easy testing. Also in the future, consider using a multimeter to check for shorts before connecting to power. Hope you can get a replacement motor. BR, -Eino Yeah, the motor decoder tabs did not seem to marry to the motor pickup tabs very well. I spent most of my fiddling trying different variations on getting a good connection. I will try a 9V to test. The thought did cross my mind, but I was weary of over-driving the motor by 1 volt. At this point it probably can't hurt it more.
And yes, I should've checked for shorts with my multimeter. I should know better as an electrician by trade. Just because things more commonly have well engineered short protection circuits, doesn't mean I should rely so heavily on them.
Ah, well that seems to be my critical mistake. Well if I can get the motor working again or replaced, I'll have to pickup a Z2 decoder. The extra AZL4 can go into the SD70M I have on the way. Would have been nice if the TCS AZL GP7 AZL4 installation instructions mentioned only for the 62000 series GP7/9, not the 6200 series. But I can't blame them, this is probably just a fun side business of one of their hobbies and a minor oversight. Crucial factor is the voltage. The UP GP7 is from the first batch with 4-digit reference numbers. These had 8 volt motors. Using a transformer/controller from another scale with a more ānormalā 12 volt rating will cook them. I do not know if replacement motors for these early engines are available. Which was heavily warned in the little instruction booklet. Which made me wonder if the decoder needed special programming to not exceed 8VDC output on the motor side. In fact, since the GP38-2 didn't come with a instruction booklet, I've been operating under the assumption it too shouldn't exceed 8VDC. Does this mean the newer generation of AZL locomotives have 10VDC or 12VDC rated motors? Thus allowing for full range of the Rokuhan DC Transformer? |
|
|
|
Post by bapakbob on Mar 30, 2024 16:10:43 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by nikdog on Mar 31, 2024 1:29:29 GMT -5
Alright, good news. The motor was fine. For whatever reason the negative motor tab wasn't making contact with the PCB. Couldn't figure out why it wasn't making contact (tried various re-bends, cleaning the PCB pad, and adding a dab of solder spacer), but soldering a chunk of solid wire to the top of the tab completed the circuit. š¤·āāļø
|
|
|
|
Post by tjdreams on Mar 31, 2024 9:59:23 GMT -5
Generally speaking the TCS AZL4 DCC decoders is not compatible with the first Gen 6200 series AZL GP7's. In all likely hood the motor contact tabs shorted against the chassis which could have burned out the Decoder and possibly damaged the motor. For the first gen GP7's. I recommend hardwiring a TCS Z2 to the factory board, along with using a voltage reducer like the Digitrax UP6Z on your DCC Setup. When ever you install a decoder be it a drop in, screw in, plug in, hard wired, or a custom install of any type you should always check for shorts with a meter before placing it on the track an applying power. Next check the CV settings to make sure the features you want to use are enabled. Just because a decoder is DC compatible does not mean that, That option has been enabled. Some Loco/Decoder combinations work just fine with Duel DC/DCC mode enabled others may not. As such some decoders come from the manufacture with (auto detect) DC/DCC compatible mode disabled. Glad to hear the motor is still working. The Swiss made 8V Faulhaber motors used in the first Gen GP7's are expensive now days. I have actually bought new 1st Gen GP7's just to get the motor, As it was the cheapest way to get my hands on a replacement for Breathing new life into an old RLW Brass Loco
|
|
|
|
Post by deon4141 on Apr 1, 2024 0:37:39 GMT -5
Alright, good news. The motor was fine. For whatever reason the negative motor tab wasn't making contact with the PCB. Couldn't figure out why it wasn't making contact (tried various re-bends, cleaning the PCB pad, and adding a dab of solder spacer), but soldering a chunk of solid wire to the top of the tab completed the circuit. š¤·āāļø You can set CV05 CV05 operates the maximum voltage from values between 0 (0%) to 255 (100%), set is to 160. Just keep in mind you cannot measure DCC voltage with a multimeter. I know you are using TCS but on the newer Digitrax decoders the motor tabs are really poorly attached to the cb, my suggestion on any decoder solder solid wires from the motor to the cb, Yes it voids the guarantee but will safe you hours of frustration. Once done just recheck for a short |
|
