einot
Engineer
Posts: 102
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Post by einot on Feb 12, 2024 9:56:46 GMT -5
Hi guys,
I'm looking for limestoneish rock molds that look good on Z scale. Noch has all sorts of molds but they label them to be fit for any scale. I don't quite buy that so I figured I'd ask you guys, if any of you have gotten great results with some product?
BR,
Eino
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Scott
Engineer
Posts: 196
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Post by Scott on Feb 12, 2024 11:58:51 GMT -5
FOR BEST RESULTS
• stove coal
• DW liquid
• homemade play dough
• Aqua Net
• Mold Builder
• rice
• Hydrocal
• pastels
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Scott
Engineer
Posts: 196
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Post by Scott on Feb 12, 2024 12:37:53 GMT -5
Thank you.
Lottsa rock via Noch. Let’s not knock Noch.
Seriously, Noch has some wonderful stuff in the way of rock options.
Noch “Rock Wall ‘Limestone’” don’t look bad. No idea how it’ll look for Z scale. (Ah, the days of walk-in.)
I scoured the corners of the earth for rock options (Pun intended.), and I found the very best rock options for Z scale are DIY from the ground up (Pun No. 2.).
Seriously and respectfully,
Scott
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Post by BAZman on Feb 12, 2024 15:34:13 GMT -5
The model RR world is stuck on the HO Woodland Scenics molds. The smaller ‘chips’ on the molds are our size. In California, we have Bragdon Enterprise. www.bragdonent.com/100’s of latex molds but yes, not many can be used for Z and usually cutting off pieces off/out of one. BUT ! -> You <- can make your of your own with Hobby/Model/Art Shop liquid Latex. Find a rock formation you like and brush the latex on. It takes a few coats. Do not use Plaster as it is harder to sculpt and heavier than Hydro Cal. Paper Mache is another product but do not recommend! It is a fiber media that takes a LONG time to dry ( so warm days, lots of fans and thin layers) and near impossible to carve. It can also mold while drying, usually from outdoor water, humidity. You will still need to build up the terrain to support and the attach the castings. Once on, you can fill the gaps with hardware store hole path products, most in a small tub and ‘tooth paste’ tube. Use *only* Water color ‘paints’, *not* Acrylic that you easily in every store. Why? With water based, the ‘stain’ the castings, so you easily increase the density/overlap in various and even let the thinned ‘paint’ to gravity flow down and puddle like real world. With acrylics, you seal the surface so its really difficult to blend to natural. Remember to download the FREE Trainini magazine that has a Worldly image of great details for ideas. And Continental Modeler published by Peco. YouTube has Soooo many How-To’s. Here is an image of Torsja Moskaug’s ‘Needle Eye’ c.2004 with chiseled plaster: www.platelayer.com/bilder/zweekend2018web/These types of rock formations are commonly carved out of home construction foam (pink/blue) with a hot-wire and *sharp* Xacto blades although when I visited, Torsja was using small Tack hammer & Chisle’ like Michelengelo. This led to Jürg Rüedi to contract John Cubbin of US Z scale for Jürg to photo dozens of early AZL brass locos: zscalegallery.com. |
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Scott
Engineer
Posts: 196
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Post by Scott on Feb 12, 2024 18:33:47 GMT -5
BAZman,
Thanks ever so much.
Thank you for enlightening with the examples of Bragdon Enterprises, those of Torsja Moskaug, Trainini magazine free downloads, and Continental Modeler published by Peco. (For a split-second I thought the Chicago Dearborn cover was Z scale.)
Thank you. I forgot about Bragdon Enterprises. Sample images from Bragdon Enterprises on my hard drive from a while ago. Breath-taking samples, indeed, but, agreed, not necessarily Z scale-friendly.
“The model RR world is stuck on the HO Woodland Scenics molds. The smaller ‘chips’ on the molds are our size.”—N’er truer words spoken. I’m still laughing. Wow. I’m not alone.
Model-making rocks I’ve come to conclude as an either-or proposition: Carving versus casting. After a while I settled on the latter. As YouTuber Kathy Millatt pointed out, casting allows for “strata.” I believe that refers to the inherent surface texture of real rock or coal not found or not readily available with carving.
Notwithstanding, here’s a memorable example of a YouTuber rock carving :
“Use water color”—YES! (BAZman = wealth of wisdom.) Not paint on but pigment in plaster (plaster = Hydrocal); that is, pigment staining the Hydrocal (similar to but not necessarily the same as the leopard spotting technique) Here’s where I saw it done (Just watch for the coloring of the rock, 0:42):
To me, rocks painted gray with drybrushed highlights have always looked like rocks painted gray with drybrushed highlights. Pigment does the casting justice.
Three-color palettes are probably the best strategy (similar to but not necessarily the same as the leopard spotting technique). Note the following:
479 Purplish-Blue Grey closely approximates 70.869 Basalt Grey.**
The former is a Sennilier pastel*; the latter is an acrylic paint.
With that, here’s a one-color palette for pigmenting a Hydrocal casting: Scrape off a little 479 Purplish-Blue Grey in some water. Adjust and test the wash on white. Apply this pastel water wash to a rock casting. One application.
*Cheap stuff works too.
**A model-maker favorite and used in more than one video by Luke Towan.
BAZman,
Again, thank you.
Scott
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Post by cjhayes2424 on Feb 12, 2024 19:25:41 GMT -5
Check out: www.raildig.comJohn Cubbin is one of the best! Plenty of "How-to" articles and step by step photos - highly recommend Cjhayes |
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einot
Engineer
Posts: 102
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Post by einot on Feb 13, 2024 2:02:47 GMT -5
Excelent advice! I love that BNCSUPRailroaders BNSFUPRailroaders layout. Actually it's kind of a reference for me. I think I might try carving. What do you think is the most suitable plaster type?
BR,
Eino
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Scott
Engineer
Posts: 196
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Post by Scott on Feb 13, 2024 17:12:17 GMT -5
Excelent advice! I love that BNCSUPRailroaders layout. Actually it's kind of a reference for me. I think I might try carving. What do you think is the most suitable plaster type? BR, Eino “What do you think is the most suitable plaster type?” Hmm … BAZman said not to use plaster as it is harder to sculpt and heavier than Hydrocal. … Hmm … Scott said Hydrocal for best results. … That’s two for Hydrocal. |
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einot
Engineer
Posts: 102
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Post by einot on Feb 13, 2024 23:54:46 GMT -5
Hi,
Ah. You are absolutely right. Somehow the YouTube video convinced me to use plaster. Got to find out what product Hydrocal is here…
-Eino
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Scott
Engineer
Posts: 196
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Post by Scott on Feb 14, 2024 2:36:24 GMT -5
Einot,
Forgive me. Somewhere where you are are model makers that do the same thing we do. Presumably, the stuff they’re pouring into rock molds is Hydrocal or the equivalent thereof.
Where I am, let’s say, the tri-state area, there’s basically the same two plasters at the hobby store, the hardware store, and the art supply store: Plaster of Paris and Hyrdocal. Hyrdocal is preferred for carving and casting. Experience has told me that Hydrocal is lightweight and holds detail well.
Snap blade knife and the Scotty knife I’ve seen model makers use to carve rocks. Snap blade means safety goggles, both of which are available at Hobbylobby.com. Scotty knife can be plastic or pricey, and it works wonders with Sculptamold.
Seems to me that the challenges in carving are: (A) creating natural-looking fault lines that don’t look like they were scored with a knife. (B) avoiding flat surfaces or planes as rocks have detail on such areas that are realized by casting.
Five-to-two I use for casting; that is, five-parts Hyrdocal, two-parts water—Warm water.
Your “BNCSUPRailroaders” as reference is unclear. Maybe you meant this(?):
Lottsa rocks. Very inspiring.
Scott
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einot
Engineer
Posts: 102
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Post by einot on Feb 14, 2024 6:21:25 GMT -5
Scott,
Ah, no I ment BNSFUPRailroader. Sorry for the typo earlier. I'm after that same look he has on his H0 layout.
Got to go the hardware store and see what they have. Modelling shops seem to have Woodland Scenics, but that of course has the MRR added price.
So Plaster of Paris is out of the question? I do have a bag of Sculptamold thou...
-Eino
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Post by BAZman on Feb 21, 2024 1:57:59 GMT -5
NO !!!
You can NOT 'sculpt' .
You can only put into mold or hand 'shape it (for a while). Dries SLOW. And just blob looking, like the expanding foam, a field of pea-size soft 'sorta-smooth' or lots of pointy peaks from where you took your finger/gloves away.
A box cutter will try to slice in to it.
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einot
Engineer
Posts: 102
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Post by einot on Feb 21, 2024 2:29:50 GMT -5
NO !!! You can NOT 'sculpt' . You can only put into mold or hand 'shape it (for a while). Dries SLOW. And just blob looking, like the expanding foam, a field of pea-size soft 'sorta-smooth' or lots of pointy peaks from where you took your finger/gloves away. A box cutter will try to slice in to it. With plaster of paris nor sculptamold? -Eino |
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Post by marmot on Feb 21, 2024 7:21:55 GMT -5
Excelent advice! I love that BNCSUPRailroaders BNSFUPRailroaders layout. Actually it's kind of a reference for me. I think I might try carving. What do you think is the most suitable plaster type? BR, Eino Woodland Scenics has a special plaster called 'carving plaster' if you really want to carve. It's rarely stocked by most retailers. It's extra weak and crumbly so it's softer to carve. It's so weak that you basically need to put it on top of some other plaster or foam that is strong enough to maintain the structure. I haven't had time to do much with it yet, so I don't have example pics. |
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Post by BAZman on Feb 21, 2024 12:02:21 GMT -5
Sculptamold cannot be carved. Consider it for light weight foundations though. So you could put Plaster of Paris or Hydro-Cal (after the Scultamold dries, I suppose).
Plaster of Paris can. And Hydrocal.
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