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Post by ednadolski on Feb 4, 2024 12:42:24 GMT -5
I'm sure this has already been discussed many times, so apologies if as a Z-scale noob I am being redundant. Could I ask, what are your experiences and opinions regarding the best control methods for Z-scale diesel locos -- DC (perhaps with block control, PWM controllers, etc.?), or DCC, or some other preference(s)?
There are two key (separate) scenarios I have on mind. First is a small layout with low-speed industrial switching (one or two locos on trains of maybe 10 cars or so), and the second is a mid-sized layout with long trains having multiple locos - say 3-5 lead (6-axle) locos and a set of 2 or 3 DPUs, either mid-train and/or end of train pushers. Grades to be up to about 2%, but not too sharp curves (18" radius and larger).
I'd think that for the latter scenario, DCC with speed matching (not necessarily BEMF) would probably be most desirable. Which of course requires installing a decoder in each loco. I should think that for Z scale, a large (10A) booster would not really be needed, except perhaps for a very large layout.
What are your favorite control methods? Are there any particular brand of decoders that are preferred over others?
Also, are there any particular pitfalls to be aware of?
For long trains, it would be nice to have a way to start moving really slowly from a passing siding, after another train has passed in the opposite direction.
At this point I am not thinking much of onboard sound, tho it could be interesting to have consists including an unpowered loco that is equipped as a sound-only unit (with decoder and speaker).
Another possibility to keep in mind is block detection for signalling. Are resistor wheelsets much used in Z scale?
Thanks, all advice and input it greatly appreciated.
Ed
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einot
Engineer
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Post by einot on Feb 4, 2024 12:57:39 GMT -5
Hi,
Well I have no experience with DCC on Z, but when comparing direct DC and PWM with AZL locos, PWM will win the day. Very smooth, maximum torque.
-Eino
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Post by oldgrog on Feb 4, 2024 13:21:14 GMT -5
I have been using Rokuhan so far. Would PWM give better low-speed control ?
If so, any recommended brands ? I live in Britain, so 240 volt AC input, not 110.
I do not wish to go digital. Any advice welcome. Thank you.
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Post by tjdreams on Feb 4, 2024 16:41:42 GMT -5
Which is best really depends on your layout and how you want to run your trains. Both are good. For smaller layouts or even big ones only running one train per loop or using blocks DC is fine.
On the other hand if you want to run multiple trains per loop than DCC might be the better option. I've seen mid train helpers work well with both DC and DCC setups on flat layouts. But when you factor in grades you may be better off with DCC and maybe even a 2nd or 3rd throttle to control the mid-train helpers and the rear pusher individually. Its really hard to predict as a lot of factors come into play. The quality of the track work how clean or dirty the track and the train wheels are the length of the slope and the % of the grade, is the grade straight or curved, The weight and rolling resistance of every car on flat track verses going up or down a slope. and how well each car handles being pushed verses pulled.
As for sound their is no need to use a dummy sound car I've been installing Sound into my powered loco's for 7 or 8 years now + their are a few under the table sound systems that are out there.
Rob uses conductive paint on his wheelsets for detection in blocks and has working signals on his Swiss Gotthard layout So yes Resistance wheelsets are used in at least 1 layout that i am aware of.
The bottom line is DC and DCC are both good. Which is best for you? Well that's entirely up to you.
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eds
New Member
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Post by eds on Feb 4, 2024 16:54:18 GMT -5
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rray
Fireman
Retired and model railroading till the last train out!
Posts: 87 
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Post by rray on Feb 4, 2024 17:41:26 GMT -5
I'm giving a vote for PWM too. DCC is PWM, but so are those DC LED/Speed controllers you can get at 2 for $7 from amazon, or the snail speed controller that Ztrack sells.
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Post by ptitrainrouge on Feb 5, 2024 2:52:35 GMT -5
hello
I run DCC (digitrax decoders and digitrax system with a voltage reducer)
as already said, DC or DCC , if you want slow speed, the first thing to have is clean tracks and clean wheels, and a perfect geometry on your switches.
Use powered frogs on the switches.
in DCC it works well for switching or long trains with MU
I find ou that the speed matching between the locos is not easy compared to my experience in N scale, but you can have descent results
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Post by Rob Albritton on Feb 5, 2024 13:24:56 GMT -5
hello I run DCC (digitrax decoders and digitrax system with a voltage reducer) In the past I was a big voltage reducer fan, but no more. In thousand of hours of testing on hundreds of locomotives from all manufacturers, I’ve found the N scale setting of 12 volts works perfectly well for all Z scale locomotives and decoders. I do strongly suggest a better short circuit protection device than what is included in the Digitrax booster. I use the DCC Specialties PSX tonystrains.com/product/dcc-specialties-psxx1-circuit-breaker |
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einot
Engineer
Posts: 102
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Post by einot on Feb 5, 2024 13:46:11 GMT -5
I have been using Rokuhan so far. Would PWM give better low-speed control ? If so, any recommended brands ? I live in Britain, so 240 volt AC input, not 110. I do not wish to go digital. Any advice welcome. Thank you. Rokuhan RC02 and 03 are PWM -Eino |
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Post by oldgrog on Feb 5, 2024 14:21:53 GMT -5
Thank you Eino - I didn’t realise that !
Here in UK a firm called Gaugemaster make controllers for z-gauge. Does anyone have any experience of them ?
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Post by bapakbob on Feb 5, 2024 14:59:24 GMT -5
the analog best is right in the azl store: ztrackcenter.com/electronics/controllers/AN-1-PIC-ABZ-AD, handheld, ergonomic, a real creeper in non-dcc format. but, the only gamer in town who is expanding their analog control network is rokuhan, and the RC02 as a starter controller is just fine: expandable by snapping on switch gear, and now even snapping on a point to point reversing module to do a whole lot with that lil grey box. the video review: NOTE, the blogger is using the Rokuhans and adapting them to N scale kato track/turnouts. The plugs are designed to work with Rokuhan Z scale track and turnouts, eg, no trimming required if used with Rokuhan track/turnouts. dcc: a whole nother smoke. non-standardized as all get out, and even on these forums this very day: "hey, there is a new loco! yeah!".......then 'where in the h e double hockey sticks is the dcc board to drop into that new loco creation!!!!  ??" gaugemasters: fantastic for constant clean-tracking on non-dcc layouts. Also sold right on this forums store: ztrackcenter.com/electronics/controllers/GA1w16Vabove is the readers digest condensed version, but if you want to start down the rabbit hole, here you go, one of hundreds of discussions: azlforum.com/thread/543/scale-power-supplies-locomotive-speed |
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Post by ednadolski on Feb 5, 2024 21:08:07 GMT -5
Thanks all. It sounds like it might be a good option to start by wiring up the layout for DC/block control, with a PWM-type controller, and then possibly upgrade/convert to DCC over time. (Similar to what I did with my N scale layout)  Ed |
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Post by ednadolski on Feb 5, 2024 21:10:23 GMT -5
their is no need to use a dummy sound car I've been installing Sound into my powered loco's for 7 or 8 years now Interesting, would you have any pics/videos/links that I could look over?
Ed
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bruce
New Member
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Post by bruce on Feb 7, 2024 15:49:02 GMT -5
I have a number of engines & am converting them to DCC as fast as possible.
Please consider this : I have an AZL PA-1 with a Digitrax decoder. Using either a Digitrax Zephyr (love its looks) or an NCE Power Cab I can crawl my loco at 1.6 SMPH (scale miles per hour). Yes, track and wheels must be clean. Speed measured with an AccuTrack II, (created a Z scale conversion table & taped it to the side).
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Post by domi on Feb 8, 2024 12:48:54 GMT -5
DC PWM is perfect for me. In my opinion PWM is mandatory if one elects to remain DC equipped. Dom |
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