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Post by casey on Jan 14, 2024 8:31:04 GMT -5
As a fellow on to a post im some what confused after getting info one members regarding a loco why does Cleary state DCC Ready but its not you to hard wire the loco don't make sense what so ever to me I quote AZL 7005-1 F59PHI Sounder Full Set | Bombardier Cars #902
AZL's F59PHIs, Bombardiers, Surfliner and California Cars are injected molded and produced by Ajin of Korea. The locomotive features a 10mm Mabuchi can motor, brass flywheel, direction controlled lighting and comes DCC ready. Nothing about fitting decoder very vague more confused than before LOL
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Post by casey on Jan 14, 2024 10:13:58 GMT -5
Its very sad that others will buy without knowing the truth of how difficult it is to install dcc decoder then wonder why the hobby dying my 1p worth rant over
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Post by tjdreams on Jan 14, 2024 10:17:36 GMT -5
"DCC Ready" is a term that is often misinterpreted to mean way more than it does. "DCC Ready" does not mean "Drop in Decoder" It only means that it is possible to install a decoder in that loco. Back in the day DCC Ready simply meant it was possible to install a decoder in that locomotive. Before the invent of Digital Command Control DCC many loco's came with motors that were a physical part of the chassis or in some cases like TYCO and Mantua the motor was made into the truck making it impossible to isolated the motor from the rails. These type locos were Not DCC Ready, As time moved on manufactures started building their loco's with newer style motors which were insulated from the chassis and the rails in such a way that a decoder could be wired in. These Locos were then Labeled as DCC Ready. There is no way to insulate this type motor from the power pickup with out major modifications Thus it is not DCC ready   AZL's F59PH has a cavity big enough to hold a decoder and the motor can be isolated with out modifying the chassis so it is considered DCC Ready On the other hand MTL's F7 requires milling the chassis down to make room for a decoder so it is Not considered DCC ready. |
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Post by casey on Jan 14, 2024 10:33:34 GMT -5
"DCC Ready" is a term that is often misinterpreted to mean way more than it does. Back in the day DCC Ready simply meant it was possible to install a decoder in that locomotive. Before the invent of Digital Command Control DCC many loco's came with motors that were a physical part of the chassis or in some cases like TYCO and Mantua the motor was made into the truck making it impossible to isolated the motor from the rails. These type locos were Not DCC Ready, As time moved on manufactures started building their loco's with newer style motors which were insulated from the chassis and the rails in such a way that a decoder could be wired in. These Locos were then Labeled as DCC Ready. There is no way to insulate this type motor from the power pickup with out major modifications Thus it is not DCC ready View AttachmentView AttachmentHi as much as I agree with your post my son who's only 15 would not be aware of this today he watched 20 YouTube video all stating the DCC Ready was if you like plug and play companies truly need to change there terminology to something better that fits todays locos for the up and coming younger modellers if they want the hobby to survive just my opinion |
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Post by dazed on Jan 14, 2024 10:47:08 GMT -5
To follow up on TJDreams post, the F59PHI's are "DCC ready," just not "drop-in decoder DCC ready."
Sorry you are frustrated, but these really aren't terrible to convert.
And by many accounts, the hobby isn't dying. Changing for sure, but there seems to be a proliferation of new products and growing participation that doesn't support the dying hobby theory.
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Post by tjdreams on Jan 14, 2024 10:59:23 GMT -5
Most larger scale manufactures do have plug and play decoders for all there newer loco's but when it comes to Z scale our loco's are so small that their is no room for that luxury (at this point in time) I know AZL is working on Drop in decoders for their newer releases.
And remember the F59PHI sets were first released in 2004 20 years ago they were the newest top of the line back then. Simply being able to buy a decoder that small and having room to install it in your Z scale locomotive was huge improvement in those days.
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Post by casey on Jan 14, 2024 11:58:02 GMT -5
Most larger scale manufactures do have plug and play decoders for all there newer loco's but when it comes to Z scale our loco's are so small that their is no room for that luxury (at this point in time) I know AZL is working on Drop in decoders for their newer releases. And remember the F59PHI sets were first released in 2004 20 years ago they were the newest top of the line back then. Simply being able to buy a decoder that small and having room to install it in your Z scale locomotive was huge improvement in those days. m Maybe true your side pond its thriving here in U.K and Europe its not we are limited by custom to £135 limit before we pay import tax if buy from Europe postage is very costly plus import tax when now buy from Germany I ask my friend what they need due postage cost Marklin fish plates £11 postage £31 not many can afford to buy im one them |
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Post by BAZman on Jan 14, 2024 14:00:59 GMT -5
As you say in the pix, the gray tray held an NCE ‘N’14, the smaller of what I had and perfect wirering order. This was 2004? The Digitrax DZ123 was the smallest Z decoder. Lenz silver & gold Mini were smaller but harder to get in the US. A new company, CT Tran of Austria then made the smallest. Still, all no drop-in’. In 2005, I put a 4-function Digitrax into a MTL GP-35 for beacon and road number. Four an eternity, it was impossible to decoder an MTL F7. There were NO decoders for märklin for sometime. I put a 4-function in their FT:
Even N has has DCC Ready, that is after near taking it all apart.
AZL has gone throuh 4 manufacturers (not their fault) so there are different installations and even the same manufacturer has (had) a change within.
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einot
Engineer
Posts: 105
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Post by einot on Jan 15, 2024 6:35:23 GMT -5
Hi,
I have converted roughly 30 H0 scale locomotives from analogue to digital. I run Märklin three rail system, but I have also converted a lot of two rail locomotives to work on that system (requires a lot of surgery on the loco trucks).
None of the locos, even those that are labeled DCC Ready, have actually been that. This is due to the fact that all locos will need at least the lights to be switched to LED and resistors installed... At least the resistors. This involves soldering.
So with AZL locos which already have LED lights in the models, I think they are very close to the drop in replacement thinking.
BR,
Eino
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Post by mrbarlow on Jan 15, 2024 13:23:21 GMT -5
All, The DCC thing is new to me. I'm a DC guy and I "plan on" getting into DCC eventually. I must admit electronics aren't my strong suite. Too bad AZL doesn't offer optionality with DCC boards already installed for all its locomotive offerings. I believe this would take a lot of frustration  out of the hobby and get more people to jump on. Thanks, Mr. B |
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Post by zscalehobo on Jan 15, 2024 13:30:18 GMT -5
I tend to agree, Mr. B, but think about it - AZL sits on a ton of locomotive inventory as it is. Imagine now, you DOUBLE the number of line items as you have a DCC and a non-DCC version to keep in stock. Your bins and inventory is double work. Then, when all the DC versions sell out and you have 10 DCC locos in stock - what do you do? Do you re-convert BACK to DC to sell out the "dead" stock DCC-equipped locomotives that aren't selling? I take my hat off to the AZL model which is to stock quite a bit of stuff but adding a second set of SKU #'s makes this logistical nightmare. Makes more sense to stock 1 locomotive and sell a separately installed DCC board made by 3rd party vendors. The testing that goes along with the DCC board installation isn't trivial for dealers, manufacturers and distributors - leave that up to the end users. Just my 2 pence worth.
edit: An AZL DID used to provide 2 different SKU #'s for DC & DCC locomotives (2013 timeframe with GP38s). They abandoned the concept not too long afterward exactly for the reasons I mentioned.
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einot
Engineer
Posts: 105
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Post by einot on Jan 15, 2024 13:55:28 GMT -5
I tend to agree, Mr. B, but think about it - AZL sits on a ton of locomotive inventory as it is. Imagine now, you DOUBLE the number of line items as you have a DCC and a non-DCC version to keep in stock. Your bins and inventory is double work. Then, when all the DC versions sell out and you have 10 DCC locos in stock - what do you do? Do you re-convert BACK to DC to sell out the "dead" stock DCC-equipped locomotives that aren't selling? I take my hat off to the AZL model which is to stock quite a bit of stuff but adding a second set of SKU #'s makes this logistical nightmare. Makes more sense to stock 1 locomotive and sell a separately installed DCC board made by 3rd party vendors. The testing that goes along with the DCC board installation isn't trivial for dealers, manufacturers and distributors - leave that up to the end users. Just my 2 pence worth. edit: An AZL DID used to provide 2 different SKU #'s for DC & DCC locomotives (2013 timeframe with GP38s). They abandoned the concept not too long afterward exactly for the reasons I mentioned. An excelent point! Rather have AZL make good business decissions and stay alive than take un needed risks. If this is a business decission… just speculating. It is also a completely different business, microcontrollers, software etc. Requires different kind of resources. But… unlike in the H0 world, where one can get a $20 used loco and a $20 decoder to practice ones soldering and other releated skills, it’s not really available in Z scale. The second hand market is non existent (at eBay at least) and high priced. So it’s a big risk to start tinkering with your new expensive locos… but then again AZL locos most likely need a PCB reseat anyway, so I guess a decoder could be installed just aswell. Just pondering this from different point of views. BR, Eino |
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Post by ptitrainrouge on Jan 15, 2024 14:38:56 GMT -5
We, dcc guys, are lucky to have Z modell (Alex, scanrail) who had produced specific decoders for RS loco and SW, and working for the SD40/2.  For a such small market that is fantastic , and no soldering required. it is ok for me if AZL sell only DCC ready loco.  |
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Post by rgs455 on Jan 18, 2024 12:44:48 GMT -5
I agree that in Z having a DCC ready model is the right way to go.
And having to swap a board is a good solution. And having a " standardized "board on many AZL legacy Locos makes it easier for decoder manufacturers and the end user. I have a spare Digitrax Z board just in case a suitable engine shows up on the second hand market.
And having a new type of decoder for the SD40 developped by Alex is worth the wait... I remember my first trip to the U.S. in 1993
there were tons of SD40's on all Class 1 Roads( and an Athearn BlueBox loco cost 40$) so my guess is the SD40-2 and derivates will be selling well .
BR Boris
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out of the hobby and get more people to jump on. 
