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Post by markm on Mar 15, 2022 0:32:56 GMT -5
We’re not in Kansas anymore…
Oakland Lark(#73,#74) was a section of the San Francisco-bound Lark running from San Jose to Oakland. The train ran into 1960. The typical consist was a possible mail storage car ( 71904-3) a commuter coach (71704-9), one or two Lark sleepers and the Lark observation-buffet. Sleepers were 6-6-4 or 4-4-2 PS in the late 40s/early 50s and 10-6 PS in later years. No indication that any other cars than Lark were on the San Jose-bound train. Power was a GS-3/4 prior to 1957, PA or E unit later (Daylight scheme) and finally a GP9 (AZL 62006-X)
An interesting note is that many business travelers preferred the Oakland Lark over the San Francisco section as the buffet served late breakfast and an early dinner.
If I’ve got anything wrong, let me know.
Mark
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Post by baumback on Mar 21, 2022 9:13:19 GMT -5
Here's a nice shot of the Golden State behind a trio of E7s ( www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,5429089 By Frank Peterson @ Beaumont CA on 4/16/50 ... from Alan Miller Collection. Lead unit is E7A 6003). An easily duplicated variation of the Golden State "name train". Mark
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Post by oldgrog on Apr 23, 2022 14:17:02 GMT -5
Talking of SP mail storage car, I understand there was a run from Sacramento with Budd RDC # 10, which, on it’s way to Oakland dropped off a mail storage car at Davis, possibly to be picked up by a northbound mail/express train. Anyone know anything more about this ? Budd officially frowned on this towing, but Espee did it on this service.
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Post by rgs455 on Apr 24, 2022 7:34:29 GMT -5
Talking of SP mail storage car, I understand there was a run from Sacramento with Budd RDC # 10, which, on it’s way to Oakland dropped off a mail storage car at Davis, possibly to be picked up by a northbound mail/express train. Anyone know anything more about this ? Budd officially frowned on this towing, but Espee did it on this service. Looking at the motorisation of an RDC.. it sure had enough oomph to pull a car. Sure Budd didn't like the idea.. they wanted to sell an RPO RDC. I guess the missing steam heat line would a more valid reason not to couple a coach or RPO to an RDC.. An oldtime Doodlebug did usually not have more power than an RDC.. maybe except for some of these birds that were more "Baggage and RPO "equipped Diesel Locos like Santa Fe or Seaboard had( oh I'd surely buy in Z..🤪😜). BR Boris
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Post by markm on May 8, 2022 10:33:34 GMT -5
Talking of SP mail storage car, I understand there was a run from Sacramento with Budd RDC # 10, which, on it’s way to Oakland dropped off a mail storage car at Davis, possibly to be picked up by a northbound mail/express train. Anyone know anything more about this ? Budd officially frowned on this towing, but Espee did it on this service. Yeah, I can help. SP-10, the only RDC owned by SP, has an interesting history. It ran in the second half of the 1950s between SF/Oakland and Sacramento. SP was ordered to upgrade service on the route and the RDC was their answer. It ran the route as trains 229 & 246 as a mid-day train 1954-1956. It returned in 1957 as the Sierra, trains 226 & 241. In 1959 is was transferred to NWP to replace the Redwood where it ran until it’s retirement in 1971. The train you’re discussing was 241, the afternoon return to Oakland (the RDC didn’t actually cross the bay to SF). SP was providing 60 (70) feet of mail storage cars, either 1 or 2 30/35 foot storage cars (AZL 71903-2) or a 60 foot lightweight car (AZL 73974-1). Can’t find an image of this configuration on the road, but here’s one from the station: The car was taken to Davis, 14 miles, on a flat route over levees and trestles. The car was left for the north-bound Klamath train 20. On the NWP, the RDC was simply train 3 & 4. It ran three days per week on the California north coast. It was out of service in late 1960 due to an accident that destroyed the cab and vestibule. Return to service in 1961 modified: In 1964, mudslides sidelined the RDC. When it returned to service it sported a bloody nose paint job. It appears that on the NWP RDC-10 was tasked to pull a PB combine on occasion. As far as modeling the 62206-1 early version matches the prototype prior to 1961, except the trucks should be aluminum. 1961 and later the one end was rebuild as seen above, turning it into baggage space. Personally I think the SP rebuild was poor and with a little putty and sanding, that the model could easily be made to match. AZL also produced a bloody nose version under the same model number. Hope this help, Mark
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Post by rgs455 on May 8, 2022 12:51:45 GMT -5
Thanks Mark, very informtive👍🏼. I chose to buy a mail car and I will post a pic with the SP RDC.. BR Boris
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Post by oldgrog on May 8, 2022 15:02:41 GMT -5
Yes, thank you so much for your detailed and interesting reply - clearly thoroughly researched. The 241 Sierra and 20 Klamath trains info is significant in filling missing pieces of the jigsaw. I have the RDC and Storage mail car models for this unique service. Many thanks, Old Grog.
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Post by markm on May 10, 2022 2:20:13 GMT -5
Yes, thank you so much for your detailed and interesting reply - clearly thoroughly researched. The 241 Sierra and 20 Klamath trains info is significant in filling missing pieces of the jigsaw. I have the RDC and Storage mail car models for this unique service. Many thanks, Old Grog. Thanks for the complement, but much of the credit goes to two articles from the SPH&TS and their Trainline magazine. I've always enjoyed modeling passenger trains as they offer so many options for customization such as passengers and window dressing and with AZL providing interiors it gets even more interesting detailing them. As a Norcal native, I'm very familiar with SP and WP and UP operations into Northern California. Happy to share. When speaking of SP, I always try to add train numbers as SP policy was that leading locomotive used the train number in service and road number out of service. I can also comment of the Klamath if interested, which was basically a night mail train with a couple of heavyweight sleepers. Also this route offers a lot of opportunity to model passengers. In the classic era, the SP Overland (#73100), City of San Francisco (#73X49), Shasta Daylight, various named and unnamed partner trains of the RDC route. In the Amtrak era you have the Starlight and Zephyr (#72100) and California's Amtrak California Capital Corridor (AZL #7001). BTW: I got to see the RDC-10 once, about 1960 near Davis, and I thought it looked like a dome car that lost it's locomotive. Mark
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Post by markm on May 10, 2022 2:56:25 GMT -5
Passenger note to AZL: Next time you run passenger cars, either heavy or light weight, would be nice to get some SP two-tone grey for pool service. It would also be nice to have some SP cars in foreign road colors such as what you did with the City of SF set. In particular I'm thinking of the cars forwarded north to the NP. As I recall, there were about a half dozen sleepers in Lowry (?) Green.
Foreign cars in Armour Yellow (PRR and NYC) would work well. I think they were 10-6 sleepers which appears to be a current project.
I would think others could (should) also provide their interests.
Mark
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Post by oldgrog on May 10, 2022 4:17:31 GMT -5
I would certainly be interested in further info on the Klamath mail train. Were there SP coaches in NP two-tone green for northbound services? I have some lettered for CB&Q and SP&S, but these are within the BN group. Also there are cars for CNW, SP and Wabash in UP armour yellow. It would be nice to see the SP and CNW coaches and diners available singly in this livery from the recent CoSF set. The SP two tone grey cars from the Lark and Cascade sets would also be welcome available individually, especially the ttg chair car.
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Post by markm on May 10, 2022 5:55:28 GMT -5
Klamath (#19/20)The Klamath was predominantly a mail train with 7 to 9 express baggage, express freight and mail cars and a small number of generally heavyweight passenger cars. The cars were a baggage/mail car, chair car, coach, tourist sleeper, diner, 12-1 and 10-1-2 sleepers, with an express car, tourist sleeper and 10-1-2 sleeper continuing on the NP to Seattle. By the mid-50s, the baggage/mail became a baggage/RPO and the tourist sleeper gone. By the 1960, passenger accommodations were reduced to one or two coaches. By the mid-50s, the Klamath ran two RPOs, back-to-back, a rarity on the SP. Power was a GS class locomotive early. Diesel power (going foreword in time) PAs, GP7/9 and F7s. As far as I know only the sleeper was green. www.snowcrest.net/photobob/kl.htmlHope his helps, Mark
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Post by oldgrog on May 10, 2022 16:14:32 GMT -5
Most helpful and interesting, also with the link to the pictures, brings it alive. Will give it more study. Only problem - need to buy more passenger stock ! Very unlikely we’ll see any more heavyweights from AZL though. Thanks again Mark, Vernon.
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Post by smr on May 10, 2022 18:30:47 GMT -5
Thank you, Mark, Many, many years ago, I remember, I showed here a SP mail train headed by a black GS4 ........ Best, Sven
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Post by markm on Sept 6, 2022 19:40:23 GMT -5
Well this month we have the Cotton Belt PAs, now what? In the late 50s time frame the PAs had been transferred to the SP and pulled the Coast Mail train for a time before they were repainted. Could use some two-tone gray here, particularly coach, 8-1-2 and 12-1 sleepers which would have been at the end of this train, also SP green would still work. Getting back to the SSW, the passenger fleet was mostly heavyweights painted in Daylight scheme with aluminum roofs. I haven’t seen much on the specifics of the trains, and would appreciate learning more, but a typical trains looks like a couple of head end cars, one or more coaches and the 8-1-2 and 12-1 sleepers. Haven’t seen any indications of a diner. (Yeah I know it’s not a PA but not a lot of public images available) A reasonable model of a Cotton Belt passenger train can be made from AZL’s 74047 set. Either paint or substitute aluminum painted roofs. If one wants to modify the letter board it would be “St. Louis Southwest” in white. Mark
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Post by markm on Nov 26, 2022 11:01:51 GMT -5
Well, since AZL was nice enough to start the Black Friday with a couple of California passenger trains, I really need to update here. Amtrak California - (CDTX) a joint venture between Amtrak and the California Department of Transportation providing services between San Jose/Gilroy to Sacramento/Auburn and the San Joaquin service between Oakland/Sacramento to Fresno. California owns the locomotives and some passenger cars, with Amtrak providing additional equipment. The San Joaquin frequently runs with Amtrak Superliner coaches and P42 locomotives as this route is one of the busiest in the nation. All rolling stock is numbered and named for a California natural resource: Feather River, Monterey Bay, and such. For both set the passenger cars are good representations of the of prototypes from the inception to today. To model the San Joaquin one should add an Amtrak diner. The California locomotive is modeled from the early years of operation, but not much has changed. The logos have changed from the 4-point arrows to the California Trans logo and an Earth graphic added to to rear panel when they were clean air updated. The second set models the Santa Bárbara-San Diego Surfliner which is still running in the modeled configuration. The only major change is that the locomotives are all sc-44s. (Hint AZL?) in recent years. There is a good deal of information on the internet, particularly TrainBoard, to DCC the locomotives, improve their back porch, etc. worth looking in to. Enjoy
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