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Post by Commodore on Mar 23, 2021 16:35:38 GMT -5
AZL is obviously not perfect. But, I like your style...
The Santa fe F3 had the wrong paint, the F7 the wrong grill. I now know how you’re building them.
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Post by markm on Mar 23, 2021 18:26:48 GMT -5
Well it took me longer than I had expected to put this data together, but it was an interesting experience getting to know all my F units better. View AttachmentA few notes worth mentioning. First the prototype length is based on an 18" diaphragm. Since we have have none in, my measurement is the body length. Assume 2mm (0.08") per diaphragm. At least two units of each type were measured except for Märklin which was just one. The absolute height was somewhat meaningless due to variations in trucks and their mounting. I used a body height. A subjective judgment is do they look good together: View AttachmentAZL F3, MTL early F7, MTL current F7 Oh Lordy! Now I expect to get an earful from Hans about the accuracy of our models! Expect a crack team on your doorstep to inspect the calibration of your caliper.  I am deeply insulted. I use only government traceable measurement equipment:  I'm a measurement professional, whose work has been certified by the USAF, USN, FDA, their subcontractors and Nintendo. Prototype information as to the precise location of measurement and EMD manufacturing tolerances were not available so I took my best guess. That said, it seems for me that your F3s do the best at living up to generally accepted measurements. Still waiting for my F7s to arrive but I'll leave my micrometer out. Now do you want to discuss the rivet count discrepancies?  Mark |
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Post by markm on Mar 23, 2021 23:37:50 GMT -5
Thanks Mark! Great job... I’ve got 3 of the one in the middle (need one more) and 2 (could use two more) of the one on the left. Nothing is perfect but I do appreciate you confirming what I’d noticed. It will be interesting to see what you come up with. I agree I could use a couple more F3Bs particularly the C units. |
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Post by Commodore on Mar 24, 2021 4:32:03 GMT -5
What’s a C Unit? AZL doesn’t number their B units...
I found flat black paint for the grills that absorbs 99% of the light. It may fix the F7 grill issue.
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Post by markm on Mar 24, 2021 6:47:18 GMT -5
What’s a C Unit? AZL doesn’t number their B units... I found flat black paint for the grills that absorbs 99% of the light. It may fix the F7 grill issue. Actually AZL did number the B units. Look carefully. It's down low by the back door on the F3B in the image above. They also numbered the bulkheads on both ends. I realize it's a minor detail, but since the F3s were ordered as A-B-B sets, it would be cool to have at least one set modelled. |
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Post by Commodore on Mar 24, 2021 10:41:31 GMT -5
What’s a C Unit? AZL doesn’t number their B units... I found flat black paint for the grills that absorbs 99% of the light. It may fix the F7 grill issue. Actually AZL did number the B units. Look carefully. It's down low by the back door on the F3B in the image above. They also numbered the bulkheads on both ends. I realize it's a minor detail, but since the F3s were ordered as A-B-B sets, it would be cool to have at least one set modelled. Mark: thanks I was looking at the Santa Fe passenger F7B with the F3 grills...none of them are numbered. I’m gonna try and cover up the F3 structure in the grills with a specific flat black paint (thinned, of course) |
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Post by Rob Albritton on Mar 24, 2021 13:51:40 GMT -5
Now do you want to discuss the rivet count discrepancies? Oh Yes, please do proceed! |
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Post by markm on Mar 24, 2021 15:12:04 GMT -5
Now do you want to discuss the rivet count discrepancies? Oh Yes, please do proceed! It will have to wait until after Easter. Professional that I am, I want to confirm my suspicions on the prototype F7A #913 at the CSRM and they don't open before then. In the meantime, I've received notice my F7s or on their way and I have my microscope out and ready. |
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Post by DAZed on Mar 24, 2021 15:56:49 GMT -5
Dang, Rob just called you out and you flinched!   |
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Post by zscalehobo on Mar 24, 2021 16:19:27 GMT -5
Dang, Rob just called you out and you flinched! Nah. He's just awaiting the resurrection of his caliper. He did say "after Easter" you know. 😂 |
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Post by markm on Mar 24, 2021 16:37:59 GMT -5
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Post by Rob Albritton on Mar 24, 2021 18:01:24 GMT -5
It will have to wait until after Easter. Professional that I am, I want to confirm my suspicions on the prototype F7A #913 at the CSRM and they don't open before then. In the meantime, I've received notice my F7s or on their way and I have my microscope out and ready. Too funny! There is a rumor that there is an Easter Egg somewhere on the F7 tooling. That microscope might be handy! Nah. He's just awaiting the resurrection of his caliper. He did say "after Easter" you know. 😂 Clever! I liked that one! Perhaps all this happens on April 1st? 😎 |
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Post by Rob Albritton on Mar 24, 2021 18:04:34 GMT -5
AZL is obviously not perfect. But, I like your style... The Santa fe F3 had the wrong paint, the F7 the wrong grill. I now know how you’re building them. Pretty much the way they looked on their first day of full livery service. But you are welcome to weather them to any age you like 👍 The main thing is to enjoy it and have fun. |
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Post by Hans Riddervold (AZL) on Mar 25, 2021 5:25:26 GMT -5
ATSF F7A Grille.
Correct, yes and no. All ATSF F7As in Red Warbonnet were early production (1949-1950) F7s and had Horizontal Grills. The first Farr-Air Grills appeared mid 1951 and are standard by the end of that year. To stay "current" many railroads changed the Grills, as did the ATSF. Exactly when this change was done for each locomotive is too hard to find out, but I have a 1955 photo with Farr-Air Grills and a 1952 photo with Horizontal Grills.
The AZL F7A have the Horizontal Grills and we only tooled one shell. Still we can mix and match quite a bit like remove rear overhang and remove side skirts. We can accommodate different number of headlights, options for steam generator, dynamic brake and different fans. But the Grills are fixed.
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Post by DAZed on Mar 25, 2021 11:05:56 GMT -5
My point was basically "you engaged the enemy without bullets".   Guess that's the difference with rivet counting in Z-scale. In HO (and even N, to some extent) if you criticize a manufacturer and don't have your "ducks in a row" and haven't done your homework, you'd get roasted. I get that it may have been somewhat in jest, and likewise my comments are meant to be taken lightly. Good natured "ribbing", if you will.  |
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