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Post by dazed on Jun 8, 2020 10:42:56 GMT -5
Unfortunately too long ... maximum two cars 40', three 50', and the caboose ... Maybe....three 40', one 50', one 60', and caboose?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2020 12:00:11 GMT -5
Thanks, it should work ... In both cases 230' overall length for the cars themselves. All the way the hopper would stay in the train and could only be "unloaded" in another station (outside of the layout) equippped for this use (look at my freight depots).
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Post by cjm413 on Jun 8, 2020 12:04:38 GMT -5
The earliest ACF 2970's (2 bay) that I know of were built in 1966 and had the high-mounted handbrake. The first ACF 4650's (3 bay) would have been around in 1965, albeit with high-mounted handbrake and different stiffening ribs. The first PS 4740's* were built in 1966 and had high-mounted handbrakes, a roofwalk down the centerline of the car (vs the trough hatch on the AZL model) and round hatches on either side of the roofwalk www.railgoat.railfan.net/photos/otherrail/mi/mi714031_jim_kinkaid_collection.jpg*NOTE- I admittedly miscounted the number of ribs on my tiny phone screen and mistakenly referred to it as a 4740 (16 ribs) rather than a 4750 (18 ribs). The first PS 4750's were built in 1972. The LPG tank cars, ACF 2-bay hoppers, ACF-3-bay hoppers, PS2-cd hoppers, waffle gons and the bay-window cabooses are all good choices. These cars would have been new in the mid-1960s. If you stretch into the early 1970s you can include the ACF 4-bay hoppers, Greenville boxccars and PCF beer reefers.
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Post by cjm413 on Jun 8, 2020 12:13:09 GMT -5
PS : 3-Bay hoppers are not suitable : "Built in the early 70's" (ZScaleMonster wrote it ... ) PS 4740 production started in 1966 and ended in 1972 when superceded by the PS 4750. On a related note, there is a PS 4750 available on Shapeways - I currently don't own one, so I really have nothing to say about it aside providing the link: www.shapeways.com/shops/ghwmini
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Post by cjm413 on Jun 8, 2020 12:20:48 GMT -5
PS : 3-Bay hoppers are not suitable : "Built in the early 70's" (ZScaleMonster wrote it ... ) Very similar cars were built in 1964. For the gamut of Z, these cars about as close of a match as you'll find, structure-wise anyway. I cannot speak to every scheme, although many are obviously post-60's. By definition, the Northern Pacific cars are 60's era. (same goes for the 2 and 4 bays....not exact matches perhaps but you could certainly use them with a fair level of believability.) Now, the PS2-CD's that AZL does are a little harder sell for that era, IMHO. The GN, CB&Q, and possibly others are likely late decade examples, (earliest examples of the 4640 were in 1966) and likely stretching things a bit as to the specific prototype. If I were modeling 1965 I personally would use the 2-bay and 3-bay ACFs, in limited capacity. Boxcars would still be king for hauling grain, and shorter PS2 hoppers (Micro-Trains) would dominate other bulk dry commodities. But having a few mixed in would still be fine in my opinion. The earliest example of the PS 2970 I could find was CNW's first order built in 1966. The closest thing PS made to the 4740 in 1965 was the "low hip" 4427. Even in Z, the differences between them are pretty noticeable. www.railgoat.railfan.net/photos/otherrail/atsf/atsf302163_patrick_harris.jpg
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Post by cjm413 on Jun 8, 2020 12:24:08 GMT -5
AZL model is (not)* a 4740, CB&Q paint is (not)* accurate (but rather a relatively decent stand-in for a 4740)* www.railgoat.railfan.net/photos/otherrail/cbq/cbq184767_ron_hawkins.jpg*-see my other posts re: miscounting the ribs on the AZL model...$&!;$€£!!!! The 4427 is a very different animal than the 4750's. I stand by my contention that the 4750's would be an anachronism. However, in Z I am ok with a few of those...will have some anachronisms on my pike too. I just wouldn't have a unit train of them or something like that...but a CB&Q scattered in here or there would probably make the cut for me too. (again, anybody can run whatever they want as far as I care, but if you're asking the question about what is appropriate for a certain date, then that's my answer.) I plan to have a few of the AZL LPG cars on my 2005-era railroad...they were very rare bordering on extinct at that point. Most of the ACF's AZL does had been replaced with newer bigger models by then too. But, we deal with what is available to get some variety.
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Post by cjm413 on Jun 8, 2020 12:31:28 GMT -5
The pink Rex Leasing cars were PS 4750's and FMC 4700's built in the late 1970's What's about this car ? And how long was the prototype (more than 50') ?
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Post by dazed on Jun 8, 2020 15:15:35 GMT -5
Very similar cars were built in 1964. For the gamut of Z, these cars about as close of a match as you'll find, structure-wise anyway. I cannot speak to every scheme, although many are obviously post-60's. By definition, the Northern Pacific cars are 60's era. (same goes for the 2 and 4 bays....not exact matches perhaps but you could certainly use them with a fair level of believability.) Now, the PS2-CD's that AZL does are a little harder sell for that era, IMHO. The GN, CB&Q, and possibly others are likely late decade examples, (earliest examples of the 4640 were in 1966) and likely stretching things a bit as to the specific prototype. If I were modeling 1965 I personally would use the 2-bay and 3-bay ACFs, in limited capacity. Boxcars would still be king for hauling grain, and shorter PS2 hoppers (Micro-Trains) would dominate other bulk dry commodities. But having a few mixed in would still be fine in my opinion. The earliest example of the PS 2970 I could find was CNW's first order built in 1966. The closest thing PS made to the 4740 in 1965 was the "low hip" 4427. Even in Z, the differences between them are pretty noticeable. www.railgoat.railfan.net/photos/otherrail/atsf/atsf302163_patrick_harris.jpgFor some reason I thought he was referring to the ACF's here, given that AZL doesn't refer to them as 3-Bays, just PS2-CD's, and the text at ZSM about "70's" was referencing the ACF's. (I was reading the PS: here as "P.S.") That and a typo on my part (4640 instead of 4740) and we're saying close to the same thing. I agree the 4427 is noticeable, as I referenced further down the post progression.
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Post by dazed on Jun 8, 2020 15:23:18 GMT -5
AZL model is a 4740, CB&Q paint is accurate www.railgoat.railfan.net/photos/otherrail/cbq/cbq184767_ron_hawkins.jpgThe 4427 is a very different animal than the 4750's. I stand by my contention that the 4750's would be an anachronism. However, in Z I am ok with a few of those...will have some anachronisms on my pike too. I just wouldn't have a unit train of them or something like that...but a CB&Q scattered in here or there would probably make the cut for me too. (again, anybody can run whatever they want as far as I care, but if you're asking the question about what is appropriate for a certain date, then that's my answer.) I plan to have a few of the AZL LPG cars on my 2005-era railroad...they were very rare bordering on extinct at that point. Most of the ACF's AZL does had been replaced with newer bigger models by then too. But, we deal with what is available to get some variety. Yes, I wasn't suggesting the paint scheme was inaccurate, but rather that it would not be accurate for 1965. And Rob seemed to be presenting the 4427 as a reason that AZL PS2-CD's were accurate for early 60's, which is why I said they are different animals.
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Post by dazed on Jun 8, 2020 16:10:53 GMT -5
PS : 3-Bay hoppers are not suitable : "Built in the early 70's" (ZScaleMonster wrote it ... ) PS 4740 production started in 1966 and ended in 1972 when superceded by the PS 4750. On a related note, there is a PS 4750 available on Shapeways - I currently don't own one, so I really have nothing to say about it aside providing the link: www.shapeways.com/shops/ghwmini At $47 not including trucks, couplers, paint, or decals (which don't exist for the most part)....I don't have much to say about it either. I'm good "pretending" with the AZL models.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 1:06:54 GMT -5
Thanks cjm413 and Doug, but it's rather difficult for me to see the relation between the type numbers and the AZL models ... Finally, which AZL hoppers are suitable for 1965 (or maybe 1966) ?
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Post by dazed on Jun 9, 2020 10:07:49 GMT -5
Finally, which AZL hoppers are suitable for 1965 (or maybe 1966) ? I think I have answered your question, from my perspective... "If I were modeling 1965 I personally would use the 2-bay and 3-bay ACFs, in limited capacity. Boxcars would still be king for hauling grain, and shorter PS2 hoppers (Micro-Trains) would dominate other bulk dry commodities. But having a few PS2-CD's mixed in would still be fine in my opinion." A scheme-by-scheme breakdown is a lot of work, and I really think your options are limited. I've commented on the roads I think are remotely relevant, but I don't know every date for every scheme. I've been trying to focus on only what AZL has, but we keep getting off on tangents of cars that don't exist in Z. Maybe PM me for a more practical breakdown versus theoretical.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 10:14:14 GMT -5
Thanks Doug the discussion about type numbers "confused" me ...
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Post by cjm413 on Jun 9, 2020 12:53:41 GMT -5
Thanks cjm413 and Doug, but it's rather difficult for me to see the relation between the type numbers and the AZL models ... Finally, which AZL hoppers are suitable for 1965 (or maybe 1966) ? There is no type listed on the AZL description, but here is an easy way to distinguish the PS cars. There are also 4740 and 4750 "clones" that were built by other manufacturers, but I won't get into that... PS 4427 (high-hip version) - 13 ribs PS 4740 - 16 ribs PS 4750 - 18 ribs, also has "clerestory" roof profile rather than flat roof profile. After going back and taking a closer look at the AZL model on something larger than the tiny screen of my phone, it appears that I had initially miscounted the ribs on the AZL model and mistakenly referred to it as a 4740...d'oh! For what is worth, there are many of HO modelers (myself included) that used the old Athearn "Blue Box" PS 4740 as a stand-in for far more common PS 4750 back in the "dark ages" (e.g. before Intermountain released their PS 4750, albeit with oversized ribs that visibly screwed up a few paint schemes) so it only follows that it is not unreasonable to use an AZL PS 4750 as a stand-in for a 4740...especially for any unnamed idiots on this thread that don't know how to count to 18
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2020 14:32:02 GMT -5
The last post in this thread (I hope so). Finally, I think there are only 3 hoppers suitable for 1965 (or at least for the 60's), concerning the type and paint scheme (and company name) : This one (or the other road number) This one (maybe ? It would be the only ATSF in my roster) And that one (or the other road number), but 18 ribs OR AM I TOTALLY WRONG, AGAIN ? Alberich the "hair-splitter"
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