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Post by BAZman on Jan 30, 2022 2:06:01 GMT -5
Oh, Cannot read CV means that the wheels/track are dirty. Every bit of data sent to the Decoder uses the motor as the load to confirm that it was received.
No, there could be some freaky thing with this CV 61 issue where the command station is sending data to the supposed new address yet it’s not actually that address so therefore it doesn’t get a reply.
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Post by husafreak on Jan 30, 2022 11:41:22 GMT -5
"Freaky thing" Ha Ha, I get that a lot when setting up DCC parameters, and I bet years from now and with more experience I'll wonder why I was having problems. That is the way of things. Can you elaborate on the procedure for using POM and CV5 & 6 values to match loco speeds before creating the consist? Or is it already described somewhere? I tried before with speed tables and a stopwatch but it was messy and did not work well. Is it OK to POM and try different CV5/6's for the slower or faster loco until they are matched with both of them on the track? That would be so much easier than the way I tried to do it before. It involved constantly retailing the locos. Plus those were the ES44AC's that I had so much trouble with (before switching from TCS to Digitrax decoders) that complicated things greatly.
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Post by tjdreams on Jan 30, 2022 12:42:36 GMT -5
A momentary loss of contact (be it a bad connection from a speck of dust on the wheels, Dirty track, or the wheels lifted when the motor twitched from the programing process) and the resulting Cannot read CV will drive you crazy trying to figure out what went wrong. Which is why when programing Decoders I try to program them on the workbench before installation whenever possible. I use the ESU 53900 LokTester It will work with most any DCC system. Simply hook your wires to the track to it instead of the track, then connect your decoder to the appropriate plug or use the screw terminals for hardwire decoders and program as usual with out the worry of loosing contact in the process. The LokTester has a speaker a motor and LED indicators so you can Test and make sure its programed and working properly before you take the time to install the decoder And when programing a decoder that has already been installed i use a set of alligator clip jumpers clamped to the wheels or directly to the decoder if possible to insure proper power connection during the programing process. David
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Post by husafreak on Jan 30, 2022 20:32:19 GMT -5
Interesting, makes sense. The program track doesn’t need to be a track at all, just a pair of alligator clips…
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Post by BAZman on Jan 31, 2022 12:53:48 GMT -5
When the Command Station (your Power Cab, in this instance) sends an Address+CV value. The decoder turns on the Motor. This causes a ‘current sense’ >0 and the Decoders sends back a confirm message to the Command Station. So, either the new data never got to the decoder or did but motor did not creat enough or, did but now on dirty track so no message back.
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Post by BAZman on Jan 31, 2022 13:57:40 GMT -5
Speed matching locos is futile. Day to day, week to week, Up/down grades, light/heavy loads, house temperature, or just the one you added to the Consist. No Loco has a “Linear“ speed curve (You might’ve noticed that some locomotives at some point just don’t want to go any faster when you turn up the power)
To Speed Match using “Programming on the Main” (POM) place to locos a far distance from each other. Start the loco that you prefer to a mid range speed (almost as normal as you would run your trains all day) and note the Speed Step.
Then start the next loco so there is a reasonable distance but something that helps you make a comparable visualization. Run it at the same Speed Step. Since ‘normal’ running speed (the loco), you are likely at/near the middle of the 3 point Speed Curve (CV6).
Press: Prof/Esc then Enter to POM and Enter (for that loco) and 2 for CV. “IF” you have NOT changed the CV6 and CV5 during Decoder programming, then the current Mid value is 128 (you cannot see any values on POM mode so keep a Note (especially if you put your own values in CV six and 75 when you were programming the decoder).
If the loco is running faster than your lead locomotive dry a value of 100 enter and note the present speed now. If too slow or too fast, make a guesstimate and program another value until you have it running relatively sane speed.
In a semi-perfect world you would run the Locos maybe 75% of normal speed (or at least more than 50%) and do the same CV6 speed match in concept and then run your speed your Locos to above normal speed (or at least at normal speed) and adjust CV5 values, which can try a little more simple curve fitting. But again no logos have the same curve and trying to do a 28 step speed step matching is just in perceivable. Especially running them tomorrow, next week, next month.
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Post by husafreak on Jan 31, 2022 22:07:02 GMT -5
Thank You. I noticed that CV6 was 128 on one loco and 0 on another. Somewhere I got the idea to make them all 0. So on any loco of mine that I have programmed CV6 is 0. I will try what you explained. And since I have never used POM that will be interesting anyway.
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Post by BAZman on Jan 31, 2022 23:36:00 GMT -5
You can't program CV6 (Mid 'volts') to 0 !! It needs to be something. I you set it to a higher umber (say 200) then you get a finer 0-to-normal speed (more step points) but once you go past 200, you have very few steps until 255, therefore its like stepping in the passing lane. And, if you mistakenly program CV6 to 255 thinking the higher CV# is the higher speed (I mean really, how stupid could the NMRA be, think 'oh. this wont confuse anyone'), the decoder will sorta correct it.
NCE defaults to 0 display but it's not (more like 'null'). The CV6 and CV5 are actually 128 and 255 (in the decoder) and when you press 'Enter' it does not change the decoder since you did not enter a value e.g. 128.
If you read the value (after programming, you are provided options to look at the CV's (option 2). It will then show 128.
I write 128 and 255, as one does not know if it somehow was change. I use Decoder Pro to program all of my locos since all that is needed is new road # and option of Reverse run or turn F0R off (A units) or both F0F & F0R for B units.
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Post by markm on Feb 1, 2022 8:26:07 GMT -5
Forgive me for butting in as you already have some of the best Z DCC experts commenting here (IMHO) and I consider myself a DCC novice, but have you all really looked at the manufacturers’ support documentation? Digitrax and TCS both have detailed programming information that goes far beyond what can be put into a forum post: tcsdcc.com/learnwww.digitrax.com/tsd/These are the first places I go for decoder information. In the case of the CV2,5,6 discussion here I went back to these documents as well the Powercab manual and a couple MR articles to refresh what I think I know and found it very useful. The Powercab manual (page 50) tells us that setting CV6 and CV5 to 0 probably sets the values to 128 and 255 respectively. I note probably because this is a decoder function. So if it’s primarily a decoder function, I moved on to the decoders. Digitrax has an excellent app note: www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB928/three-step-speed-table-cv02-cv06-cv05/that explains the results of special CV values and effects and speed control. Well worth reading (or re-reading) for the DZ decoder specifics. Of particular interest to me was the effects when CV2<CV6<CV5 is NOT true. Regarding the inability to read back CVS, aside from the posts here, I learned there are also CVS (15,16) that can lockout read back: docs.tcsdcc.com/wiki/Support_-_DCC_Programming_Track#Mainline_ProgrammingI guess what I’m saying is DCC is complex, so don’t stop asking questions, but there is a lot of valuable information tucked away on the manufacturers’ websites. Mark
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Post by husafreak on Feb 1, 2022 14:12:40 GMT -5
Excellent, great information and a welcome discussion for me at least. Jeff and Mark really cleared up something with the way NCE displays information. Maybe dumb but I thought programming CV2/6/5 to 0/0/0 was OK, and the manual explains why, but since the loco moved with 0/0/0 it actually made me less aware of how it all really works! LOL I just keep learning. Mark you are correct, I should be able to do this on my own, but there is so much information in these manuals that it is like "drinking from a fire hose". Wouldn't a "DCC for Dummies" book be nice? It is easy to read those documents but not really understand them. But I will go back and read them again as I'm sure I will understand more next time. I am also getting a sense for just what is important in Z scale DCC here though. I will be looking into this "Decoder Pro", I have drawn up a table of CV's that matter to me and this sounds sort of like that. Also I will investigate F0F/F0R because those are not familiar and I have an ABA set coming.
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