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Post by arsenix2001 on May 28, 2017 18:04:07 GMT -5
Hi all, new member here and recently got into Z after years of N scale. Im building a 4x6 layout and currently have various sd70's geeps and so on. Im using rohukan track andcontrollers. Wondered if anyone had tried the kato sound box in z scale. Not sure if the momentum was an issue or if it just wasnt compatible. See that its only listed for ho and N but thought id pry and ask. Id love to have some sound!
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Post by BAZman on May 28, 2017 23:44:57 GMT -5
The sound will always be better from a larger source than a "pencil eraser". It just come from the same place, rather than the loco. There is no way to sync the cylinders with 2 separate sources so the Kato sound will never know that the loco is straining uphill or under loads, like around curves. Also, the opposite like when going down hill or coming out of a curve.
Just make sure it was some CV's to attempt approximate speed matching.
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Post by markm on May 29, 2017 0:21:34 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum and Z.
I hadn't seen this system before so I did a bit of research. While it hasn't been specified for Z the documentation says it works with a 12VDC system. While the "standard" power for Z is 10VDC, a number of the AZL locos have 12VDC motors, so operation is possible. The Rokuhan throttle is capable of running at 10VDC or 12VDC depending on it's power source.
What concerns me is that it uses BEMF to modulate the sound. The DCC experts have said that BEMF developed for larger scales doesn't work in Z. I wonder if the same wouldn't be true for the Kato box?
Hope this helps,
Mark
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Post by dawdawes on May 29, 2017 1:58:05 GMT -5
I have been using the Soundbox on my exhibition layout Lincoln, I run the small Rokuhan control into it. And as long as the track and loco wheels are clean it runs superbly . I use 2 sound cards, one first gen emd for my gp7/9 and a second gen emd for my gp38s. I also run a separate speaker from the line out under the board .If you are running one train at a time its fab. I did contact kato to ask if it was compatible but they didn't have a Scooby doo (clue). So I bit the bullet and purchased one. Not looked back and it will be used on the new z as well.
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Post by Rob Albritton on May 29, 2017 4:34:45 GMT -5
Hi all, new member here and recently got into Z after years of N scale. Im building a 4x6 layout and currently have various sd70's geeps and so on. Im using rohukan track andcontrollers. Wondered if anyone had tried the kato sound box in z scale. Not sure if the momentum was an issue or if it just wasnt compatible. See that its only listed for ho and N but thought id pry and ask. Id love to have some sound! I have one - use it with Z scale - it works great. There is no way to sync the cylinders with 2 separate sources so the Kato sound will never know that the loco is straining uphill or under loads, like around curves. Also, the opposite like when going down hill or coming out of a curve. It is really set up to be a one locomotive (non-DCC) solution. Welcome to the forum and Z. I hadn't seen this system before so I did a bit of research. While it hasn't been specified for Z the documentation says it works with a 12VDC system. While the "standard" power for Z is 10VDC, a number of the AZL locos have 12VDC motors, so operation is possible. The Rokuhan throttle is capable of running at 10VDC or 12VDC depending on it's power source. What concerns me is that it uses BEMF to modulate the sound. The DCC experts have said that BEMF developed for larger scales doesn't work in Z. I wonder if the same wouldn't be true for the Kato box? I think you are over thinking the whole voltage thing. This is effectively and analog box. Run the whole thing at 12 volts. Unless you go wide open throttle all the time, it will not be a problem for the occasional 10 volt motors, and most new stuff is 12 volts anyway. Also the Back EMF bit is really true for a DCC decoder adjusting its power to supply the motor - not a box that is using BEMF to determine how fast a motor is spinning so it can sync sound. Back EMF exists in Z scale just as much as it does in every other scale. Best, -Rob(A) AZL
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Post by mgatdog on May 29, 2017 9:02:25 GMT -5
Rob A What kind of power supply are you using with yours ?
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Post by dawdawes on May 29, 2017 9:13:40 GMT -5
You can buy or use a 12v DC pack to plug straight into the back or purchase a kato adaptor that fixes to the side of the unit then run the wires to your own 12v DC transformer. I run up to 3 locos on the head end with the Rokuhan cntl and the soundbox with no problems at all its done about 12 shows over the last 16 months and each show runs about 6 or 7 hours
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Post by mgatdog on May 29, 2017 10:17:57 GMT -5
Want to start on my 4x8 layout but waiting on Atlas for there switches to be made. I all ready have there flex track waiting. So this looks like another thing to add to my future layout then. Thanks Dawdawes
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Post by Rob Albritton on May 29, 2017 10:21:30 GMT -5
Want to start on my 4x8 layout but waiting on Atlas for there switches to be made. I all ready have there flex track waiting. So this looks like another thing to add to my future layout then. I'm waiting on switches too. I've put down some of the Atlas flex track - went down easier than anything I have used so far - and I've tried them all: Marklin, Peco, MTL, hand laid, Rokuhan. IBL cork to wood using Liquid Nails Project, then Track to the cork using Weldwood Contact Cement. I was able to lay a full box of 25 sections in 3 hours. Rob A What kind of power supply are you using with yours ? Generic 12vdc/2 amp wall wart from my parts bin.
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Post by arsenix2001 on May 29, 2017 12:08:13 GMT -5
Wow, thanks for the replies and info! Thats great news! Not wanting to go DCC I think this will add a bit of fun to keep things interesting. Ive built a 2 line main where the secondary main line acts as a feeder to a siding and 5 track switching yard. Ill try and post some progress pics. Just finished adhereing all the track to the foam board. Its amazing how finicky those little locos can be if there is the slightest irregularity in the track.
Im taking advantage of the power routing turnouts and have two rokuhan controllers so I can be running both mains or be running the main and switching in the yard at the same time. I understand that the kato box will only work with one controller at a time but im trying to figure out if there is a way to wire it so I can for example run my loco out of the yard on controller one past the what ill call the break point switch onto the main, throw the switch and then have the loco controlled by controller two and not have to physically switch wires on the back of the kato box so that its not sending track power back to both lines. Im not seeing an easy way to do it. Hope that makes sense.
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Post by mgatdog on May 29, 2017 13:09:08 GMT -5
Wow, thanks for the replies and info! Thats great news! Not wanting to go DCC I think this will add a bit of fun to keep things interesting. Ive built a 2 line main where the secondary main line acts as a feeder to a siding and 5 track switching yard. Ill try and post some progress pics. Just finished adhereing all the track to the foam board. Its amazing how finicky those little locos can be if there is the slightest irregularity in the track. Im taking advantage of the power routing turnouts and have two rokuhan controllers so I can be running both mains or be running the main and switching in the yard at the same time. I understand that the kato box will only work with one controller at a time but im trying to figure out if there is a way to wire it so I can for example run my loco out of the yard on controller one past the what ill call the break point switch onto the main, throw the switch and then have the loco controlled by controller two and not have to physically switch wires on the back of the kato box so that its not sending track power back to both lines. Im not seeing an easy way to do it. Hope that makes sense. You sound like me. Trying to lay out your track operations cause I want to be able to run 2 locomotives at same time. I guess the only way for me is 2 controls and 2 sound boxes .
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Post by arsenix2001 on May 29, 2017 19:27:40 GMT -5
Yeah I think I may just wire everything into kato connectors so it can be easily switched. Cant afford two boxes!
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Post by arsenix2001 on May 30, 2017 21:06:26 GMT -5
Well I took the plunge and picked one up. Seems to be working great. Awesome addition. Thanks for the info everyone.
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Post by mgatdog on May 31, 2017 7:03:58 GMT -5
Yeah I think I may just wire everything into kato connectors so it can be easily switched. Cant afford two boxes! Agree on the 2 boxes,gets to be expensive.
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Post by mgatdog on May 31, 2017 7:19:01 GMT -5
My question is how's the sound . If you have a layout that is big and sound box is on one end . How many speakers should you add to your layout for sound of loco to be were loco is at on your layout. Do you put a speaker to cover 2' x 2' square or one speaker in middle of layout.
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