|
|
Post by grahame on Jun 27, 2014 9:12:10 GMT -5
I have just taken delivery of my first AZL loco and am very pleased with it so far. It’s a GP38-2 and it runs very quietly and smoothly. It was quite slow at first but I expect a "run in" process with these. It is running quite a bit faster now but I still only have about 1-1 ½ hours of run time. I have 2 questions:
1. I am using a Marklin Z scale controller that puts out a max. of 10.8 volts with this loco on the track (measured with meter). The specs say this loco has a 12 volt motor so I am ok to run it up to the 10.8 setting, from time to time...certainly would not do it for hours on end? I do not want to damage the motor. I am seeing no heat develop, runs nice and cool.
2. A new loco can be in storage for quite some time by the retailer and they can "dry out”. I was wondering if it might be a good idea to apply a very small amount of correct model train oil to the gears on the lower side as well.
This is my first AZL loco and I am sure it won’t be my last,
Thanks for your response,
Grahame Taylor (Houston,TX)
ps I am quite new to Z scale..I also have a Marklin DB89 and an MTL F7.
|
|
|
|
Post by markm on Jun 27, 2014 10:43:27 GMT -5
Grahame,
Good to read that you're happy with the GP38-2, particularly after reading your issues with the DB89 elsewhere. I have three and have been very happy with them.
Typically, I run all new locomotives at 5V for an hour (15 minutes each forward and reverse, clockwise and counter-clockwise) before I am willing to evaluate the units performance. This helps distribute lubrication and burns away any oxidation on the wheels and electrical contacts.
I don't advocate running any Z scale above 10V, although it's mainly because maximum throttle will run the locomotive unrealistically fast. I feel that people worry too much about the maximum voltage. Electronics are typically designed to handle 10% variation and guaranteed to operate at a specified voltage. A 12V motor generally can safely be operated up to about 14V. I wouldn't worry about 10.8V.
I wouldn't worry about lubricating a new AZL locomotive right out of the box: They haven't been around long enough to have dried out. A bigger problem in Z is too much oil which ultimately requires a major overhaul and cleaning. I've been using Labelle 108 to lubricate my locos.
Hope this helps,
Mark
|
|
|
|
Post by grahame on Jun 27, 2014 11:30:37 GMT -5
Thanks Mark, yes this AZL loco came the day after my DB89 went up in smoke and I was very nervous about running it. This will either restore my faith in Z scale or drive me from it once and for all. My GP38-2 is a bit slow right now..I did run it in but at a higher voltage than 5..I'm not sure it would move at 5 right now. I will work with it and see hope it get's on. 8-10 runs very nicely and is smooth and quiet. No heat generated.
Before this I got an MTL F7 which ran really badly but I found it was BONE DRY when I reluctantly took it apart. After some lubing and working the trucks separated from the rest of it to work the oil in..she runs much better now..still quite noisy. AZL loco is far quieter.
DB89 is going back to Germany for warranty repair hopefully. The eBay seller (who actually has a Marklin receipt) is going to try to get a repair done for me. very nice guy!!
I use Hob-E-Lube HL653 Ultra-Lite Oil.
|
|
|
|
Post by markm on Jun 27, 2014 13:34:52 GMT -5
Grahame,
Ophs, I messed up. See the next post.
|
|
|
|
Post by markm on Jun 27, 2014 13:53:16 GMT -5
Grahame, You have basically bought 3 generations of loco design: Marklin the 1st , MTL F7s the second and AZL, MTL GPs the third with each designed with the best small motors of the time. I'm not surprised that the MTL F7 was dry. Some of the units may have set on the shelf for over a decade. They are also well known for being noisy. Fortunately, they provide instructions for how the units go together. If you're comparing the GP38 speed to the F7, it will seem to run slow. The third generation locos are designed to run a more prototypical speed curve than the earlier ones. Although I've posted this before, here's a speed/voltage curve for some of my AZL GPs that may help you:  These data are from units out of the box and run for an hour at 5V before the measurements. Mark |
|
|
|
Post by modelwarships on Jun 27, 2014 14:48:39 GMT -5
I like my GP-38's. I now have 7 of them. I find that anything over 2/3 throttle is a bit fast. I find that the only thing I really need to do to them is keep the wheels clean and the lint out of the gears. Also make sure your electrical pickup from the trucks are making good solid contact with the frame contact strips.
FYI the GP-30, GP-7/9 have pretty much the same performance characteristics. I do find that if they sit for a few weeks, they start out running really slow and benefit from a little warmup.
|
|
|
|
Post by ztrack on Jun 28, 2014 7:29:09 GMT -5
Grahame welcome to the AZL forum. I am so happy to read you picked up an AZL GP38 and that you are going to be able to get your Marklin problem resolved. That is great!
Rob
|
|
|
|
Post by grahame on Jun 28, 2014 19:12:42 GMT -5
These data are from units out of the box and run for an hour at 5V before the measurements. Mark Thanks Mark....I have clocked my GP38-2 at 64 scale mph at 8.9 volts...a bit below yours but not too badly off..thank you very much for that  . I just love it..purring along..it's looks so real.....Yes it is a fair bit slower than my MTL F7, now that it actually has some lubrication  . Marklin DB89 is on its way back to Germany, the seller is actually a model train shop over there so I am hopeful. |
|
|
|
Post by boxcarwilly on Jun 29, 2014 9:04:17 GMT -5
Grahame welcome to the wonderful world of Z railroading. While it can be frustrating at times, I know you'll get a great deal of enjoyment out of it.
As for speed, I agree with others that this is not a huge factor in determining how the motor with stand up. In my opinion, the speed of your trains/locos should be determined by the reality of the layout you are building. In other words, if you're modeling a specific line in a specific area of the country, then the prototypical speed of your engines/trains should be governed by that. For example, I am currently modeling a specific part of the Canadian Rockies which, because of the way the line was built, requires trains to travel at slower then normal speeds especially on grades since some are particularly steep. There are rock slides and avalanches in winter to also be considered. So I run my trains through these areas at a prototypical speed of about 25 to 35 MPH. Once my trains clear these areas, then I open up the speed a bit to 50 to 60 MPH depending on the length of the train, the cargo being carried and the number of engines required to haul it. I'm not going to go into detail about all of these only to say most of my trains are material specific such as grain, oil, propane, other fuels and chemicals, and containers. From time to time, general mixed freight as well. But throughout the various areas of my layout, I control the speed of whichever train it is as close to what the real train running through that specific area of the Rockies would actually travel. This is why I run strictly DC. I like to be able to control the speed of my trains directly as if I were sitting in the cab. So if you're concerned about speed, look at your layout and what you're trying to build. Let that determine the speed of your trains and I know you will never have to worry about causing problems with any of your engines regarding of who makes them.
Have fun.
|
|
|
|
Post by grahame on Jun 30, 2014 7:10:03 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply "boxcarwilly". I think my main preoccupation with speed is to be sure my loco is good and not defective in any way. My speeds are def. below the line posted by "markm" but very smooth...I have been running it for an hour at scale speed 27 mph at 6.5 volts and it is purring along like a Rolex. I guess I am a bit gun shy after the DB89 and MTL F7. I read one post where a guy bought 3 GP38-2's and one was substantially slower than the other two. He returned it to AZL who checked it and said it was fine and within their specifications. Not sure what that means. I am very pleased with the AZL forum by the way...unlike this one, I have posted several threads over here: www.marklin-users.net/forum/yaf_postst31508_It-s-all-over----DB89-went-up-in-smoke--literally.aspx#post460796..about the overheating problem on my DB89. The final thread, which I had asked to be removed and it came back again, has posting of people implying I don't know what I'm doing and that I caused the armature to fail. All I did was routine maintenance to try and resolve the problem. I have to say I really resent that and got quite mad about it. My eBay seller is attempting a warranty repair for me since he was the original buyer from Marklin. I was pretty close to giving up on Z scale actually. |
|
|
|
Post by markm on Jun 30, 2014 11:19:22 GMT -5
Grahame,
Regarding locomotive speed, the NMRA specifies that the full throttle speed of a locomotive should vary no more than 20% from the standard prototype. The GPs were spec'ed at 65 MPH. I actually feel my GPs are a bit on the high side, but acceptable.
Being a new recruit to Z scale, I should warn you that Z scalers are probably the most passionate model railroaders. Sometimes threads can get very heated, even here. I know a few of these people and can tell you they mean well, but sometimes the words come out really wrong. And I must admit that after the 4th or 5th thread of "I ran my engine at 15V for an hour and it quit working...Z scale is junk!" it can get hard to be diplomatic.
Mark
|
|
|
|
Post by boxcarwilly on Jun 30, 2014 11:57:38 GMT -5
Why Mark, you ol' bag o dirt. You wouldn't be referring to me now would you? ;-)
Grahame, I have 3 38's and they all run at different speeds even though two are very, very close to being the same, and the only problem I've had with any of them was a sagging coupler which Hans at AZL was gracious enough to remedy for me since I broke the original trying to get it back into position. At AZL's advice I might add. I run them in consists with MTL and other AZL engines and they work superbly for me. I think they are the best diesel engines AZL has produced so far.
|
|
|
|
Post by grahame on Jul 1, 2014 14:23:00 GMT -5
.....so somebody deleted my post?
|
|
|
|
Post by Rob Albritton on Jul 1, 2014 14:35:27 GMT -5
Hi Grahame, I moved it to the AZL Customer Gallery thread since it was only about T scale, and this is the Z scale section. But it is a cool little layout! - link is here: azlforum.com/thread/281/Best, -Robert |
|
|
|
Post by grahame on Jul 1, 2014 15:17:38 GMT -5
Oh ok..no worries.....just wondered...
|
|
. I just love it..purring along..it's looks so real.....Yes it is a fair bit slower than my MTL F7, now that it actually has some lubrication 
. Marklin DB89 is on its way back to Germany, the seller is actually a model train shop over there so I am hopeful.
