|
|
Post by aceisback on Apr 22, 2014 21:52:27 GMT -5
How does everyone keep their GP38's running?
I have 3 GP38-2 locos and all 3 are now non-functional after about 2 hours of run time each. I had sent one back and it was cleaned and checked and it only ran for about 30 minutes before dying. My newest one that was purchased while the other one was being repaired no longer works. 2 of them had the circuit boards come loose and I thought I had that fixed, but the fix did not last long. My 3rd one had a dead motor. I thought the motor burnt up, so I took it out and removed the end bell and found that one of the commutors was broken off. Can't fix that. I have cleaned everything trying to restore electrical contact, but nothing works. I do not use oil or any lubrication because I was told that my repaired loco was full of oil, yet I don't use oil.
Although I keep hearing good things about the GP38's, I cannot understand why I cannot keep at least one running. I know it is not the track or the power supply (bought one of the power supplies from Z-track center). My problems lie in the truck/body contacts or loose circuit boards as I can just touch them with a small stick and get temporary operation, plus I borrowed an MTL loco from a friend and it runs fine.
I really like these GP38's, but I am very unhappy with them at the moment. Anyone else having issues with there GP38's? I want to buy a better quality AZL loco, but am a bit hesitant due to the money already spent for 3 dead locos.
|
|
|
|
Post by BAZman on Apr 23, 2014 0:56:22 GMT -5
Lets get some details:
Power pack type: eg MRC model xxx, Rokuhan, etc.
Type of running track: MTL, Rokuhan, Märklin, etc.
Are you sure that the there is voltage on the track? MTL's power connection track makes poor contact with smaller wires. Can you measure the track voltage with a meter? Have you tried *touching* a 9 Volt battery to the wheels (or shell off to the frame halves)?
Are you near any cities where a fellow Z'd or even any other scaler might be able to assist.
It is truly hard to believe that you could be this lucky. But we're here to help.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrja on Apr 23, 2014 1:17:01 GMT -5
"... I borrowed an MTL loco from a friend and it runs fine."
That reads to me that he has voltage to the track.
"... power supply (bought one of the power supplies from Z-track center)."
That reads to me that he has a proper Z-scale power-pack.
|
|
|
|
Post by aceisback on Apr 23, 2014 3:51:05 GMT -5
Medvend AN-1-C Panel Mount Analog Speed Controller. Confirmed with Rob prior to ordering. Using Rokuhan track. I get 9v with a digital volt meter. I also tried using my Marklin power supply also, but same problem.
Touching a 9v battery to the wheels does not work. I can fiddle around and get it to run for a second or so then it stops. My circuit boards are loose, I tried shimming the boards to make better contact. My two working locos started acting up a couple of days ago, and I got them running for about 15 minutes by fiddling with the circuit boards, and now I cannot get them to run at all.
The issue with all of them seem to be electrical contact issue.
I have had just zero luck with these locos. All three worked great fresh out of the box. I have my layout set up in my workshop, and all I do is turn it on and let the trains run while I am messing around and just like to watch it run. I previously posted a thread asking where to get replacement motors and copper strips, but they are not available. When these locos are out of warranty, the owner is out of luck because you cannot even buy spare parts. When the motor died on one of them and I knew I could not get a replacement, I decided to test the motor itself with a 9v battery. It did not work so I removed the end bell to see if the windings were burnt. That is when I discovered that one commutator was broken off and was actually down in the armature. I could run the motor with wires touching the armature contacts, so without the ability to buy a replacement motor, the loco is useless. Like I said, I hear a lot of good things about the GP38's, so I don't know why my locos are failing. I just want some decent running locos. I want to buy an SD70, but am now not sure due to the cost and the worry of it failing just the same.
My 2 latest loco were both purchased from Z Scale Monster, is there any chance I may have gotten old stock of older models? Not sure if the GP-38's ever had any issues early on.
The loco Rob checked out for me came from Model Train Stuff, and was my first Loco which was purchased last Nov. I believe, but can't remember for sure.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrja on Apr 23, 2014 6:57:04 GMT -5
Both Z Scale Monster and Model Train Stuff are reputable dealers that I buy from regularly. They are not the problem or the issue.
|
|
|
|
Post by ztrack on Apr 23, 2014 19:38:34 GMT -5
I have been re-reading this thread and I went back and looked at our notes from the one we repaired early. Let's do some troubleshooting first. When I corrected that fist engine, I found a lot of oil and gunk in the trucks. The oil I get since these trucks are heavily oiled, but the gunk appeared to be picked up from the layout. The trucks of these have open gearing which can pick up dust, debris, lint, fibers etc. If gunk builds up in the trucks, then this will increase the resistance and cause the motor to work harder.
You mention you run these in a workshop. What kind of shop? Is their dust or such that falls on the layout?
Also, the oil issue is a common one. In normal operation, the oil can get on the contacts and cause performance to decrease. Here is how we can check that.
Remove the shell and then remove one of the trucks. Lossen the screw above the truck a few turns and rotate the truck 90 degrees while gently pulling down. Be careful not to bend the contacts. With the truck out, inspect for debris. Rotate the gears. They should move freely. If their is resistance, you have issues. Clean all of the electrical contacts with a soft cloth and rubbing alcohol. If you have Conductalube, apply it to the electrical contacts. Replace the trucks and test the 2nd one.
If the trucks are binding, then you can try taking them apart and cleaning, or order new ones.
After the trucks are back on, test run. Is the loco running better now?
With the shell off, inspect the board on top. This board should be sitting down with the rear of the board pushed up again the holder towards the rear of the chassis. Do the lights come on when you put the locomotive on the track? You can try pulling the board, and tweak the copper contacts the drop down form the board. This should be bent slightly forward and outward. If the board is the issue, we can send you a replacement.
Try these steps and let us know how it goes.
Rob
|
|
|
|
Post by aceisback on Apr 23, 2014 22:51:17 GMT -5
I have done all of the above. I have removed the trucks and cleaned everything with alcohol. The problem is between the trucks and the chassis. I hooked jumper wires to the track, and I can touch the wires to each side of the chassis or directly to the copper strip, and the motor runs. If I touch the wires to the wheels, nothing unless I wiggle the trucks around.
With the trucks off, there was no resistance that I could tell. The wheels ran smooth when power was applied to the chassis.
I have cleaned and cleaned these things and now I have one that I cannot put back together because one of the copper strips fell out and I can not get it back in for the life of me. I am going to take a break from them for a few days as I am about to chuck them against a wall if I don't. I don't think they are going to work anymore anyway, the copper strips are bent to hell from them falling out every time I remove the shell and me putting them back. As far as I know, the strips may be the problem.
At this point, it will be cheaper for me to buy another loco than trying to get these going. I have spent too much time trying to get them running again.
I am not frustrated with AZL, I am just frustrated with the problems, so don't take this a personal attack or anything. I just have to cool off and suck up the loss.
|
|
ZFRANK
Fireman
If you can't get it.....build it yourself....
Posts: 92
|
Post by ZFRANK on Apr 28, 2014 12:38:51 GMT -5
My undec GP38-2 (actually a GP40-2 now) didn't run properly forward... In China they have used a tacky grease.. Trucks and worms were dirty and tacky. I took appart the chasis and have cleaned the chassis parts halves, worms and trucks (just remomved trucks, not dis-assembled them) in an ultra sonic cleaner. After having it re-lubed it runs great now! Speed is now similar to my GP30. My advice: get yourself such a small juwelery ultrasonic cleaner.
/Frank
|
|
|
|
Post by metalman2 on Apr 28, 2014 15:58:49 GMT -5
Welcome to the club. I too have a recently bought AZL GP38 in NS livery, alas I have 2. One ran fine until, I don't know it just quit, the other runs sparingly. I asked Rob what he thought and he told me to check the gearing on the trucks to see if they have anything binding them up. The problem was, I wasn't told that I had to remove the shell and then loosen one of the screws holding the chassis together. I figgered I could just pull up on it the same as MTL trucks, oops boy did screw up there. When it did come up one of the "side pieces of copper/brass" contacts that go between the wheels and the frame and over the axles came partially out. I could see no way to get it back where it belonged. I again contacted Rob and he said he never had taken one of the trucks apaprt, Rob I am not picking on you I hope you understand that. Still I got no answer to how to solve my problem. I too noticed an excess amount of grease on everything, no wonder we can't keep our rails clean. I guess they don't offer any replacement trucks for their engines as Rob has never got back with me in regards to getting me one or the price. The other thing is when you start "tearing into an AZL engine" you are not offered any instruction sheet as per MTL, and going on an AZL site does not do you any good. I guess I'll join you as I have 3 AZL engines that are now not working or working properly, by that I mean to a good speed and without any hesitation. With all of the grease the things are putting out I'm afraid to run them on the ol;d L"Z"PMRR, probably would screw it up too. What we need is Kato to come intop our scale and show these people how to build reliable engines at a decent perice. I know about Kato as my N scale stable of about 250 locos was 90% Kato. The rest being Atlas and ConCor. I owned no Bachmann as they only make junk. Bachmann is the last one we need to come into out segment of the hobby.Maybe along with an instruction sheet AZL should pack 2 extra power trucks with each engine they sell. Lee Barry, CEO L"Z"PMRR. As of right now Rob I will BE seeing you at the Cleveland show !!!
|
|
|
|
Post by aceisback on Apr 29, 2014 0:39:17 GMT -5
I am still unable to get these to run. I do know the problem lies at the truck/chassis contact points. I think I need new contact strips, but they cannot be obtained. And I am still unable to get the copper strip back into the slot on this one loco.
I have never had a problem getting the strip back in. This may be the issue as the strips fall right out when the shell is removed, so they can't be making good contact. With the loco on the track, I can touch the contact strips with a toothpick and get intermittent electrical contact, but it won't maintain contact.
I can touch wires from the power supply directly to the chassis and the locos run smooth as long as I can keep up with them holding the wires on the chassis.
I am just upset because I have close to $300 worth of locos that are all dead after 1 hour run time.I run an MTL when I get the chance to borrow it and have gotten close to 3 hours run time without any issues. Don't know what the solution is at this point, everything is as clean as it is going to get. I would try the ultrasonic cleaner, but I would rather just put the money towards a new loco.
|
|
|
|
Post by cjhayes2424 on Apr 29, 2014 3:41:52 GMT -5
I don't own a GP-38 so I'm not up to speed on HOW the chassis' and trucks' contact strips are configured for this unit. If it's similar to the GP-30, give this a try: seat the chassis' contact strips above the trucks contact strips at all four points. Had to do this with my GP-30 to get it to run properly as I was encountering, the same, intermittent power spurts. Mine now runs flawlessly.
Metalman, regarding instructions, if you're not familiar with dismantling an AZL engine, take pictures. If you have a decent smart phone or digital camera, take a picture before each is part removed. This way you have a record of "what goes where". Will make your life a lot less complicated. Again, this was my experience and it worked for me; yours might be different but it did sound similar. Good luck.
|
|
|
|
Post by metalman2 on Apr 29, 2014 10:46:23 GMT -5
cjhayes,
I don't think taking pictures of what you are doing will help if you don't know the proper procedure to disassembl one of these engines to begin with. The actual problem is with AZL not building a reputable product to begin with. I regards to waiting to get an MTL engine hope that he don't but an F7 MTL engine unless you want to send it back 2 or 3 times to get it to work right. Then there's the noise from it....
Surely as long as AZL & MTL have been making Z Scale engines they could build it right, oh well GM hasn't learned that lesson yet, but it is always less expensive to file bankruptcy that to pay all of those lawsuits,right?
|
|
|
|
Post by modelwarships on Apr 29, 2014 19:44:24 GMT -5
I have 7 GP-38's now and only one problem. One unit and also GP-30 had problems when installing a decoder. I find that you need to make sure tabs from the decoder tabs contact the engine power tabs on the motor. Mine were too far apart and the torque of the motor would cause it to break contact. This was not a case of making sure the bend angle of the tabs was correct (like you see in some tips), but rather that the motor tabs were not staying in contact with them. I bent the tabs on the motor slightly inward by inserting an exacto knife blade between the frame and tab and gently twisting it to bend it slightly inward. Make sure you retain the insulating tape to keep the tabs isolated from the frame. This may not be your problem, but I am just going to pass this along just in case.
|
|
|
|
Post by aceisback on Apr 29, 2014 22:21:37 GMT -5
I have decided to cut my losses and look for alternatives at this point. I really like the GP38's, but I can't spend $300 for an hours worth of enjoyment and 4 hours of frustration. I do have a couple of modification ideas that may get these going, but that will be a few days before I get to test it out. Basically going for a more positive electrical connection from the trucks to the chassis. I have heard about the MTL F7 issues, and am avoiding it right now also.
|
|
|
|
Post by aceisback on Apr 29, 2014 22:28:51 GMT -5
Are other AZL locos built the same way as the GP38 ? I am looking to get a steam loco instead, but am going to do more research before I decide what brand or model I am going to buy. The MTL SD40 is what I was using to troubleshoot my issue to make sure it wasn't the track.
|
|
