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Post by trainguy on Jan 22, 2023 17:43:12 GMT -5
I’m new to Z, have been doing it for two months. My problem is with the Rokuhan 110mm turnouts. When the locomotive approaches turnouts going straight no problem, when the locomotive makes a turn the locomotive wheels knife between the rail and the switch point rails causing a derailment and subsequent electrical short. Now, if you hold the manual lever to firmly hold the switch point rails in the turn position the locomotive makes the turn without event. Is there a way to adjust the switch internally, I have at least two switches that do this? Thanks for the help.
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Post by husafreak on Jan 23, 2023 1:00:47 GMT -5
Hopefully you will have a constructive comment soon, but I do not have this problem with mine…
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Post by ztrack on Jan 23, 2023 11:32:05 GMT -5
I am trying to figure this out. I haven't see this before. Question, are your turnouts wired and using the electronic switches to position the rails? Or are you only operating these manually? Are the turnout secured to the base, or loose?
Next question, what locomotives(s) are you running?
Rob
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Post by dazed on Jan 23, 2023 11:51:48 GMT -5
Hopefully you will have a constructive comment soon, but I do not have this problem with mine… Same...I'm with Rob I've not heard of this one. Curious about whether they are secured or not. If they're loose and/or at some odd angle that could contribute. Only other thought....is the turnout coming out of sharp reverse curve by any chance? |
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Post by trainguy on Jan 23, 2023 12:21:07 GMT -5
I have 7 turnouts in the layout, 5 work fine. I have two Micro Trains F7, and one AZL alco rs3. The electric switch moves the switch point rails tight to the fixed rail, all locomotives while going through the turnout knife between the rail and the movable switch point rail, then derails the locomotive and shorts the track. The ones that are not working have been located to the switch yard with straight track before the switch. Like I said, if I hold the manual switch lever firmly it obviously holds the switch point rail from moving allowing proper operation. I have not secured this area until I get things resolved. Due to problem, the switches have been moved about the layout with the two that do not work located in the yard. I wondered if there was an internal adjustment that would hold the switch point rails more firmly?
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Post by trainguy on Jan 23, 2023 12:46:32 GMT -5
I have 7 turnouts in the layout, 5 work fine. I have two Micro Trains F7, and one AZL alco rs3. The electric switch moves the switch point rails tight to the fixed rail, all locomotives while going through the turnout knife between the rail and the movable switch point rail, then derails the locomotive and shorts the track. The ones that are not working have been located to the switch yard with straight track before the switch. Like I said, if I hold the manual switch lever firmly it obviously holds the switch point rail from moving allowing proper operation. I have not secured this area until I get things resolved. Due to problem, the switches have been moved about the layout with the two that do not work located in the yard. I wondered if there was an internal adjustment that would hold the switch point rails more firmly?
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Post by BAZman on Jan 23, 2023 14:31:26 GMT -5
Very strange. Of the 2:
are the points end connected to curve or straight track?
If straight, how long (110, 55)?
If curve, same arc or reverse arc?
Are the points end connected to same flat surface (no grade hump/dip)?
If you turn the loco around, does it still pick the points?
Can you look closely at it and watch as the loco runs thru? If not, do you have a phone that has Slow Motion? Add some light and make sure the camera is in focus and run the loco thru.
Did you modify the turnout’s Power Routing screws. Might be impacting the sliding.
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Post by ptitrainrouge on Jan 23, 2023 15:25:01 GMT -5
![]() I have several tens of rokuhan turnouts, and I have never experienced this problem too. Do you have this pb when your loco enters the turnout from the "front" (on the one entry track facing the frog) of the turnout, ou from the rear (from one of the deviated tracks). if the second option is the good one, are you sur that the moving part is in line with your loco: if not it is sure that you will have a short. or, check that the moving part in contact with the external rail (when turning) is really square , it may be not, and you could have a bad contact between this part and the flat part of the external rail. Difficult to explain without a drawing
chek if the contact at the orange point or the red point are perfectly square and have a full contact with the flat part of the rail if not , it could be your problem.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 15:50:19 GMT -5
Is the issue caused by all locos or only MTL ? My GP9 (former GP35 with another shell) had the issue of shaking on the turnouts like an offroad car and was lifted, only when the turnout was in divergent position, because its gauge was slightly wider, and since the moving part of the turnouts has 2 straight sides, the width between the rails is smaller in the middle ...
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Post by trainguy on Jan 23, 2023 16:35:12 GMT -5
I am primarily using the AZL locomotive because it is the smoother runner. The turnout has a 110mm straight before. It always works as expected going straight, the derailment always occurs making the turn. If I physically hold the manual switch activator it always makes the turn successfully. Somehow the locomotive wheels knife between the switch point rails and the main rail when I don’t physically hold the manual switch firm. As I said in a previous post I don’t know if the main rail has enough material removed for the switch point rail to set proper, when looking overhead the look very similar to turnouts that work. I did try running the AZL opposite direction with same results.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2023 7:15:56 GMT -5
I’m new to Z, have been doing it for two months. My problem is with the Rokuhan 110mm turnouts. When the locomotive approaches turnouts going straight no problem, when the locomotive makes a turn the locomotive wheels knife between the rail and the switch point rails causing a derailment and subsequent electrical short. Now, if you hold the manual lever to firmly hold the switch point rails in the turn position the locomotive makes the turn without event. Is there a way to adjust the switch internally, I have at least two switches that do this? Thanks for the help. I had problems with mine as well. I have a small two track oval, and I had two of them to cross over to either or. I struggled to make them work reliably with my RDC's, I tried everything, from shimming to to adjusting etc. They would go through reliably one way but not the other. So, my fix? They are no longer on my small layout, just the two loops. I gave up, maybe I will revisit this down the road. |
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zosorailways
Engineer
I mean base board appearance detailing and such
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Post by zosorailways on Jan 24, 2023 10:07:07 GMT -5
Are these Curved track turnouts or Straight track turnouts ?
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Post by trainguy on Jan 25, 2023 16:53:11 GMT -5
These are both left hand straight 110mm turnouts. I was going to provide a overhead view of the turnout location and a 14 second video of the problem, but the forum will not let me upload either because says file is too large? The video shows the locomotive coming into the turnout, then jumps or knifes between the rail and switch point rail, as I push the derailed locomotive back you can see the switch point rail twitch back to the main rail. Now if I hold the small sliding plastic piece at the end of the switch point rail firmly in position with a small probe the locomotive travels through the turnout as expected. My question, is there an internal adjustment to hold the switch point rails tight to the main rail?
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Post by tjdreams on Jan 25, 2023 17:25:17 GMT -5
There is no internal adjustment that I am aware of. For your video try uploading it to YouTube then post a link to it.
Two things come to mind with this issue. one are the points loose / have too much slop allowing the point rails to wiggle or roll side to side?
two Could the points be bent or smashed such that they are leaning to one side. If so the bottom of the point rail could be hitting the bottom of the side rail before the top dose there by leaving a gap at the top for the flange to pick? I've never seen this issue in Z scale but I have seen it in HO with taller rails. With HO I was able to use a pair of needle-nose pliers to gently bend the point rail back into shape. I don't know if its possible with Z scale but it might be worth a try.
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Post by trainguy on Jan 25, 2023 18:33:58 GMT -5
tjdreams, thanks for the response. I have looked at the the turnout with a magnifying glass and maybe you could talk yourself into believing there is a slight tapering gap between the rails with the switch in question. My wife looked at it and she doesn’t see it. Also, if you take a small probe and pull back on the switch point rail it might not seem to twitch back as strong as a working turnout. My wife, also questions whether that was an accurate observation. Long and short, there really doesn’t seem to be any real difference. As I stated prior, if I hold the small moving plastic piece at the end of the moving switch point rail which holds it tight to the main rail, the locomotive makes the turn as desired. I really don’t know what else I can do with them
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