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Post by husafreak on Feb 15, 2022 0:14:49 GMT -5
I got an ABA Santa Fe F7 set and 3 Digitrax DZ123Z0 decoders. As far as I can tell the chassis are the same but obviously the DC board in the B unit does not have LED lights. All three run fine on DC but the B unit will not move with the DZ123Z0 board on short address 3. The LED's change direction and turn on and off from my NCE Power Cab but it will not move. I bent the contact strips to different angles with no luck. If I replace the stock DC board it runs fine again on DC. If I try to read the decoder after choosing Program Track and STD I get a CAN NOT READ CV message for manufacturer and Decoder Version. The LED's on the board blink but the loco does not move. Both of the Digitrax boards that did not work with the B unit were placed in the A units and moved and read CV's normally so I am beginning to wonder if these B units work differently than A units? These are very simple things! Maybe there is a fault in my B unit? So here I am again wondering if anyone here can help...
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Post by husafreak on Feb 15, 2022 1:34:12 GMT -5
OK I solved it. Of course I solved it after posting, LOL! So typical, I reach the end of my expertise, ask for help, then start to have some success with my very random troubleshooting, (somewhere in there I tell my wife "I've had it! just give me 5 minutes to query the experts).
So after my last post I decide this is ridiculous, the chassis is simple, two halves to collect track power and a circuit board to transfer the power to the motor. I removed the circuit board(s). I grabbed my 9v battery with leads and started touching things. Direct motor operation, check. Etc. At some point I found out that I could touch the left side of the chassis and the right motor lead and the motor would run. Now that is not right! Not without the circuit board in place. The only way that could happen is if the motor is grounding against the left chassis half. And sure enough the motor lead inside the chassis was touching. Apparently this in not a problem with DC but it sure is with DCC. So I moved the motor lead and its solder blob away from the chassis half and replaced the DC board. I thought I was all set but it would not run! What the heck? My 9v wires direct to the board run the motor but to the chassis do not. Once again with the 9v leads I realize the board is a bit loose and not contacting the left chassis. I added a bit of solder to the stock DC board pad and viola, it works properly. I replaced the Digitrax DCC board in the frame and it works properly now! CV's are read and it moves properly. It is crazy to be a newbie in this hobby sometimes! My B unit was faulty from the factory but ran because the negative motor contact grounding against the frame isn't a problem with DC operation. This was not OK with the Digitrax decoder but it couldn't tell me why. And the fact that the stock DC board wasn't making contact with the chassis is just extra non related stuff. Sheesh! Maybe I spread the frame contacts by jamming the Digitrax board (which has a lot of solder on its pads) into the frame clips? Anyway It's all good now. There's nothing magic about "B" units and a 9v battery with leads can be a powerful diagnostic tool. I'll be ready for this kind of problem next time!
I guess an ohm meter could be a powerful diagnostic tool as well...
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Post by husafreak on Feb 15, 2022 1:45:00 GMT -5
Oh yeah, what is a good way to douse the LED's on the decoder in the B unit? I expect they can be turned off permanently in the decoder programming or consist programming? I'll look into the F0R and F0F settings in the manufacturers manuals.
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Post by husafreak on Feb 15, 2022 13:33:08 GMT -5
I was unable to find out how to turn off the lights in the DZ123Z0 decoder installed in my "B" unit. CV's 49 and 50 control F0F and F0R and use a default value of 00. Beyond that I am not learning much more. Turns out DCC lighting is a very complicated subject.
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Post by BAZman on Feb 15, 2022 14:06:29 GMT -5
Did you wait more than five minutes to post this last post? :-) You need to “re-map” The function outputs. So we map the CVs using the program track to unused functions. Example: F0F (CV33) to F03 (value 4)and F0R (CV34) to F03 (value 4). That’s why you need to use Decoder Pro, because once you learn all of these, you just put the loco on the track and select which type of “configuration“ you want. So I have all of my diesels set for F0F (front) and F0R (rear) as standard. FA locos Mars effect (re-map F0R to front+Effect) etc. Same with FB’s re-map headlights to the unused Functions. All that’s needed in Decoder Pro is to select a profile rename locomotive model manufacture number, Road number and click This might help:  You should download the Digitrax Decoder manual and edit content (or add bookmarks therein) www.digitrax.com/static/apps/cms/media/documents/documentation/decodermanual.pdf |
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Post by husafreak on Feb 15, 2022 14:48:00 GMT -5
Well, I slept on it! So complicated... "remapping functions", another chapter in the text book, "Decoder Pro", now we are using computers! Yikes. Fun Stuff for sure  I'll work on it, and with a paper text and a highlighter in hand as suggested. Just be glad we are not neighbors Jeff, your doorbell would never stop ringing! |
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Post by husafreak on Feb 15, 2022 15:45:57 GMT -5
I guess "remapping functions" is as easy as changing the CV's. CV33=4 and CV34=4 has turned of the lights.
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Post by husafreak on Feb 16, 2022 14:01:28 GMT -5
I found there are some interesting interactions when building an ABA consist. Turning off the lights in the B unit DZ123Z0 decoder with CV33&34 was pretty straight forward but when programming the A units there are some interactions that had me scratching my head. Mostly to do with the pros and cons of decoder programming versus controller (PowerCab) consist programming. So in the interest of establishing a "best practice" here are some questions:
1. In an actual (prototypical?) consist what lights are on? Obviously the lead A unit FWD lights running FWD. But how about the trailing A unit headlights when running in reverse? Note that with these F7 A units they do not have backup lights so I tried to use CV33 & 34 to turn them off on the DZ123Z0.
2. Should I program my trailing A loco to run forward normally and in reverse it in the PowerCab consist programming? Or program that unit to run in reverse?
3. When setting up a consist in the PowerCab does it decide which lights are on and when?
Thanks
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rray
Fireman
Retired and model railroading till the last train out!
Posts: 87 
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Post by rray on Feb 16, 2022 18:21:27 GMT -5
For the Northern Pacific Railroad, the F units were almost always ran in ABA configurations for F3, F5, F7, and F9 locos, EXCEPT the FT's which were ABBA. The NP numbered those locomotives with their number followed with an A, B, C, or D. So an F7 6512 set would be locos 6512A, 6512B and 6512C.
So, for decoder programming of the set, I give all 3 locos the same address, 6512. The A unit is programed as forward direction with normal lighting, the B unit is forward direction with lighting ignored, because you can't see the lights anyways, and the C unit is motor reverse with normal lighting.
In later years, NP started mixing different F unit numbers, but generally stuck to the ABA configuration, so if modeling those configurations, use consisting to set each loco in the consist the desired direction.
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Post by markm on Feb 17, 2022 18:35:38 GMT -5
I guess "remapping functions" is as easy as changing the CV's. CV33=4 and CV34=4 has turned of the lights. Glad you got the lights out and didn't try to remove them as you may find them of use. I can recall a number of A and B units traveling with maintenance lights on in the equipment bay. Setting one of those light to a slow flicker might be interesting. Also some roads installed a light on the back of the units for a backup light. Similar to the light on the doors of the WP RDCs alongside the back door. |
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Post by BAZman on Feb 18, 2022 14:18:08 GMT -5
I *really* don’t like common addressing. 1st, they all won’t have the same speed profiles so you will have to do that separately ((then remember that one). 2nd, if you do have some variance of time (usually today/tomorrow :-)) you will not be able to do this with ‘Program on the Main’ where you can do this easily if you leave each loco with its own road. Generally, a Consist will have front loco light one (obviously) and none of the others (even if the lasts loco is facing End-of–train [not in ‘Elephant style’] ). When the Consist run in Reverse, the opposite happens. But this is all railroad and FRA rules require some situations but we can do whatever we want in our fantasy railroads  ->-<= In the NCE manual (somewhere in Consisting) I believe it says ‘mentions’ to start with the 2nd loco, to get what you are looking for. Since the lighting is so crappy dim, why even bother. |
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->-<=