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Post by husafreak on Aug 24, 2019 13:42:41 GMT -5
FWIW, if you want to see basically everything there is to purchase in Z scale check out Zscale Monster.
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Post by cjm413 on Aug 24, 2019 17:18:25 GMT -5
WOW!! thank you everyone for chiming in with your incredibly helpful knowledge!! I had not even heard of Full Throttle yet, so that is cool to know there is yet another option besides MTL and AZL. I really appreciate you all taking the time to explain all this valuable info So today I got my AZL loco and 5 freight cars in the mail... put them on the layout and the quality is amazing. The cars are heavier than MTL and the metal wheels are awesome. The sound they make when operating is music to my ears!! And most importantly... they haven't come uncoupled yet. So I think in my eyes they are an improvement over MTL trucks and I will definitely be switching over my MTL freight cars to use AZL trucks. Well... I'm off to buy more AZL locos and cars Before you buy new trucks for your MTL cars, be mindful of the coupling distance they have with the stock MTL trucks. If the coupling distance is too large with a stock MTL truck (e.g. open hopper, covered hopper, etc.), go with Full Throttle. If the coupling distance looks correct with a stock MTL coupler (X-post box, cupola caboose, etc), go with AZL "standard length" trucks. I do have pictures showing the difference between AZL and Full Throttle, also MTL and Full Throttle, but they are too large to post here.
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Post by cjm413 on Aug 24, 2019 17:34:23 GMT -5
SLO welcome to the group and to Z. Welcome aboard! Our AZL computers will automatically couple together (with a little force)... ...and the AZL couplers connect well too. I find all the various knuckle couplers (AZL, MTL, FT, Intermountain and Penzee) all work with one another and in typical operation of trains, they all function about the same. Yes if you want to run 100 car trains or extensive switching, AZL and MTL are the respective choices. Otherwise, the only reason to swap out couplers is for looks. I run 10-20 car trains of all the aforementioned manufacturers with the only issues a slight but visible variation in car spacing and the MTL "trip pin." As for trucks, Bettendorf, etc. refers to trucks types and eras and the Z scale trucks pretty much match the prototypes. Frequently MTL will provide trucks data on the insert and that can help. Most other retail sites have images you can compare to. As for wheels, metal rolls better and doesn't leave the rails as dirty. However with a typical train on a typical layout there isn't a great difference. If you are going to replace trucks, you'll be getting metal wheels anyway. But you can also consider just replacing the plastic wheels with metal. Although currently backordered at the manufacturers, they are a less expensive solution. Personally I do like replacing the plastic wheels on lighter cars like flat cars and smaller tank cars. It improves stability. Hope this helps, Mark One caveat - I've run across several MTL cars where the truck data was incorrect, so it's always best to defer to photos of the prototype whenever they are available.
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Post by cjm413 on Aug 24, 2019 17:54:30 GMT -5
Full Throttle trucks on left, stock MTL on right Attachments:
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Post by cjm413 on Aug 24, 2019 17:56:27 GMT -5
Full Throttle on left, stock AZL on right Attachments:
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Post by ProgressRail on Aug 24, 2019 21:27:11 GMT -5
Some more perspective:
...i think this one has been beat into the ground enough in multiple threads; just buy a bunch of everything and make it work...you will figure it out.
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Post by markm on Aug 25, 2019 12:07:09 GMT -5
This discussion has gone in a direction that I think we should talk about minimum radius. The original Märklin design was for a 145mm minimum radius. This requires a wide car-to-car spacing. Since the trucks are designed for all cars up to 90' prototype length, the spacing is larger than necessary for shorter cars. When Kadee (now MTL)produced the first knuckle couplers they too followed the 145mm radius to match Märklin, the only track system available at the time.
Fast forward to the 21st century, sectional track goes up to 260mm radii and AZL and others are designing for a more realistic 195mm minimum, allowing for closer coupling. Perhaps when MTL redesigns their trucks for metal wheels they will improve the coupling, like they have done in N scale.
As a group we should probably be conservative with truck and wheel conversions. Otherwise alternative trucks and metal wheels from FT and AZL could be backordered for a long time. Were I to convert all my rolling stock, I'd need at least 1500 wheel sets.
Mark
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Post by cjm413 on Aug 25, 2019 16:34:40 GMT -5
This discussion has gone in a direction that I think we should talk about minimum radius. The original Märklin design was for a 145mm minimum radius. This requires a wide car-to-car spacing. Since the trucks are designed for all cars up to 90' prototype length, the spacing is larger than necessary for shorter cars. When Kadee (now MTL)produced the first knuckle couplers they too followed the 145mm radius to match Märklin, the only track system available at the time. Fast forward to the 21st century, sectional track goes up to 260mm radii and AZL and others are designing for a more realistic 195mm minimum, allowing for closer coupling. Perhaps when MTL redesigns their trucks for metal wheels they will improve the coupling, like they have done in N scale. As a group we should probably be conservative with truck and wheel conversions. Otherwise alternative trucks and metal wheels from FT and AZL could be backordered for a long time. Were I to convert all my rolling stock, I'd need at least 1500 wheel sets. Mark MTL's N scale trucks still come with plastic wheelsets, the metal wheelsets are sold as separate parts.
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Post by Commodore on Aug 25, 2019 16:36:26 GMT -5
This discussion has gone in a direction that I think we should talk about minimum radius. ....Were I to convert all my rolling stock, I'd need at least 1500 wheel sets. Mark That's 375 MTL cars! Whoa!
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Post by husafreak on Aug 30, 2019 2:37:37 GMT -5
FWIW there’s a recent thread on Trainboard titled “Brass carbody for Ohio crane” which includes a short video. It is easy to see in the video how the MTL couplers do their slinky thing when the cars are being pulled by the loco. Whether that bothers you or not is optional
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