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Post by sanluisobispozscaler on Aug 22, 2019 21:55:29 GMT -5
Hello Everyone, this is my first post so I just wanted to start off by saying hello... and I look forward to being a member of this z-scale community! I have been modeling an n-scale layout for 15 years and essentially "finished" my n-scale and needed to start something new! So, I have recently built a z-scale layout  For my n-scale trains I bought Micro Trains couplers (I heard these were the best for n-scale?) and I put those on every car to try and make the train run as good as possible... and that brings me to my question for you all: What couplers do you think are best for z-scale??? I have some Micro Trains rolling stock... but I just ordered an AZL loco and some cars. I'm interested to see if AZL is better. ![]()  |
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Post by Rob Albritton on Aug 22, 2019 22:27:53 GMT -5
Welcome aboard!
Our AZL couplers are compatible with MTL, so you can interchange without problems.
Our AZL computers will automatically couple together (with a little force) but do not uncouple with a magnet the way MTL couplers do. I find MTL couplers have more spring slack to them, while our AZL couplers are a bit more solid.
My local train group uses AZL rolling stock and regularly runs 100+ car trains, so we know they work well in stressful situations.
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Post by sanluisobispozscaler on Aug 23, 2019 0:08:07 GMT -5
THANK YOU!!!!! Exactly what I wanted to know. I have no need for the magnetic uncoupling... really what I am looking for is the "solid" quality you describe. I have elevation change in my layout and a solid coupler without slack is the is the number one thing I'm looking for.
My next question for you is... On the AZL direct website I have found couplers under "Parts" but none of them have pictures so I'm not sure by just the name (Beddendorf/Budd?) which trucks I would buy to replace on like a 50' or 60' freight boxcar made by MTL.
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Post by ProgressRail on Aug 23, 2019 7:37:29 GMT -5
What couplers do you think are best for z-scale???
The more AZL engines & rolling stock you decide to buy and actually run [not just sit static on a diorama or shelf...], the more you will understand what I am talking about; quality control issues. AZL coupler's seem to exhibit two consistent flaws throughout the years: 1.] too stiff not allowing for enough sway_movement into easements+curves...*this is especially true when you install the pilot/plow on a trailing unit and between the head_out/first car causing lift-off derailment's, and 2.] they come apart pretty easily or just flat out fall apart...[more of an issue with their earlier batch of releases & factory, not so much now].
To correct the issue of AZL couplers being too stiff causing the truck/wheelsets to literally lift-off the head of the rail and not allowing for enough sway movement, remove the lid from the draft gear box to access the actual coupler/shank's and trim_back the 2 "whiskers" by 1/2 with an exacto; reassemble, done.......or...you can swap her out entirely with minor modification to an MTL #905 [002 02 021]. 
I have yet to have a single above mentioned issue, nor any issue with Full Throttle roller bearing trucks...and, they are actually more to scale/smaller than AZL; both have metal insulated wheelsets. It's 2019...get roller bearing trucks...unless, you're modeling an older era and older equipment...get Bettendorf.
My advice, keep and fix your AZL couplers on your AZL equipment...replace MTL trucks and plastic wheelsets with Full Throttle; it's just not cost-practical to replace everything with Full Throttle. AZL is good for replacing defective coupler's/part's/equipment though, just get in touch with Rob Kluz or one of the AZL bosses in an e-mail or message; regardless of what they send...you're still going to need to trim back the whisker's until their factory make's corrections.
Have a link: Full Throttle: Trucks & Wheelsets
And another: MTL #905
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Post by markm on Aug 23, 2019 9:43:38 GMT -5
SLO welcome to the group and to Z. Welcome aboard! Our AZL computers will automatically couple together (with a little force)... ...and the AZL couplers connect well too. I find all the various knuckle couplers (AZL, MTL, FT, Intermountain and Penzee) all work with one another and in typical operation of trains, they all function about the same. Yes if you want to run 100 car trains or extensive switching, AZL and MTL are the respective choices. Otherwise, the only reason to swap out couplers is for looks. I run 10-20 car trains of all the aforementioned manufacturers with the only issues a slight but visible variation in car spacing and the MTL "trip pin." As for trucks, Bettendorf, etc. refers to trucks types and eras and the Z scale trucks pretty much match the prototypes. Frequently MTL will provide trucks data on the insert and that can help. Most other retail sites have images you can compare to. As for wheels, metal rolls better and doesn't leave the rails as dirty. However with a typical train on a typical layout there isn't a great difference. If you are going to replace trucks, you'll be getting metal wheels anyway. But you can also consider just replacing the plastic wheels with metal. Although currently backordered at the manufacturers, they are a less expensive solution. Personally I do like replacing the plastic wheels on lighter cars like flat cars and smaller tank cars. It improves stability. Hope this helps, Mark |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 11:53:20 GMT -5
I didn't test, but I wonder if the permanent magnets in the Rokuhan turnouts can't cause "unwanted uncoupling" with MTL under certain conditions ... For myself I left the MTL and FT couplers in place (I don't switch and have no modern cars by AZL) and removed the metal rod ; so I am sure ...  |
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Post by markm on Aug 23, 2019 12:23:05 GMT -5
There is also a permanent magnetic in the MTL turnouts. So far I've noticed no interactions between the MTL couplers and the turnouts of either company.
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Post by husafreak on Aug 23, 2019 13:05:45 GMT -5
Well I learned something from this discussion. I got several kinds of rolling stock and the "springiness" of the MTL couplers was very noticeable to me, with that and the plastic wheels the MTL cars just seem to move around and vibrate in a non scale way. I am just starting trains this year so mine are quite short, 10-12 cars at a time, so the slinky effect may be more noticeable. Nice cars though so I can see why people will spend the extra $ to improve them with aftermarket steel wheels. Too bad MTL couldn't make those steel wheels for us. I am waiting to get FT wheels as they are out of production right now, I may consider replacing the entire trucks after this discussion. But of course it is not necessary. Talking small degrees of perfection here. I like the FT and AZL and InterMountain couplers and wheels best. I don't use the magnetic uncoupling feature. But if I don't look too closely the MTL cars go along just fine.
Not too sure what AZL coupler "whiskers" are. Maybe I'll take one apart and have a look...
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Post by jhrailroading on Aug 23, 2019 13:22:42 GMT -5
What couplers do you think are best for z-scale???
The more AZL engines & rolling stock you decide to buy and actually run [not just sit static on a diorama or shelf...], the more you will understand what I am talking about; quality control issues. AZL coupler's seem to exhibit two consistent flaws throughout the years: 1.] too stiff not allowing for enough sway_movement into easements+curves...*this is especially true when you install the pilot/plow on a trailing unit and between the head_out/first car causing lift-off derailment's, and 2.] they come apart pretty easily or just flat out fall apart...[more of an issue with their earlier batch of releases & factory, not so much now].
To correct the issue of AZL couplers being too stiff causing the truck/wheelsets to literally lift-off the head of the rail and not allowing for enough sway movement, remove the lid from the draft gear box to access the actual coupler/shank's and trim_back the 2 "whiskers" by 1/2 with an exacto; reassemble, done.......or...you can swap her out entirely with minor modification to an MTL #905 [002 02 021].
I have yet to have a single above mentioned issue, nor any issue with Full Throttle roller bearing trucks...and, they are actually more to scale/smaller than AZL; both have metal insulated wheelsets. It's 2019...get roller bearing trucks...unless, you're modeling an older era and older equipment...get Bettendorf.
My advice, keep and fix your AZL couplers on your AZL equipment...replace MTL trucks and plastic wheelsets with Full Throttle; it's just not cost-practical to replace everything with Full Throttle. AZL is good for replacing defective coupler's/part's/equipment though, just get in touch with Rob Kluz or one of the AZL bosses in an e-mail or message; regardless of what they send...you're still going to need to trim back the whisker's until their factory make's corrections.
Have a link: Full Throttle: Trucks & Wheelsets
And another: MTL #905
Are the Full Throttle trucks easily installed on AZL cars without modifications? |
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Post by dazed on Aug 23, 2019 14:25:45 GMT -5
My m.o. for the most part is "if it ain't broke don't fix it". So, I wouldn't replace trucks/couplers on anything unless there is a problem. (to clarify, I don't have any Marklin rolling stock so everything I own is a knuckle style coupler that all tend to work together pretty well.) It's personal preference as to whether or not you consider the MTL "slinky effect" a problem or not. I generally don't find it to be a major issue for me in the grand scheme of things and there are some things that can mitigate it.
One exception to the above is metal wheelsets. It is my goal to have everything running on metal wheels. I'm a bit behind right now with that and awaiting another run of wheels from Fox Valley. (which I understand should be here in a month or so) But considering I don't have a layout currently in-service it's a moot point. To me having metal wheels is far more important than which coupler I'm using.
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Post by ProgressRail on Aug 23, 2019 14:42:46 GMT -5
Talking small degrees of perfection here. Not too sure what AZL coupler "whiskers" are. Maybe I'll take one apart and have a look...
When you take apart an AZL coupler, remove the top_plate/lid from the draft gear box and expose the gut's...it's essentially a two-piece design; knuckle_shank & lip_shank...mostly importantly, no ridiculous slinky-spring.  One of them has what I call "whisker's" or "retaining_arms"...there are 2 [one on each side]...both of those are what you need to trim with an exacto/razor blade by 1/2 to allow for sway movement; you will know exactly what I'm talking about soon as you open her up. *Especially make sure you do this when you install the pilot_plow and run that unit in the trailing position [behind the lead unit; B-end to A-end]...unless you prefer a giant gaping hole in the front for aesthetics & realism...or again, cherry-pick your prototyping? [or as I previously mentioned, you can remove the AZL coupler and install an MTL #905 body mount coupler in it's place].
And that's the best thing you can do...take your equipment apart and get to know it; don't be intimidated by it or it's cost_take photo's with your cell phone before removing parts in case of reference, have the right tools & space to work with, and just take your time/have patience...no hurry. It's much, much easier than you probably think it is...getting it all back together is the fun part... 
>jhrailroading ...Full Throttle trucks/bowser bucklers/knuckle coupler's can be installed on both MTL and AZL rolling stock without any modification [except for equipment requiring a medium shank 11.5.arm...i.e. autoracks, 64' trinity reefer, 73' centerbeam, etc]; its a simple swap. Pop the factory AZL or MTL trucks off, save the bolster-pin, put the new Full Throttle truck in place, insert the AZL or MTL bolster pin back in all the way; that's it. Full Throttle set's even come with their own extra bolster pins, but you really don't even need them.
*btw...Intermountain, when they produced rolling stock in 1:220...used AZL trucks + AZL autolatch coupler's; they never developed their own as far as I know.
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Post by zscalehobo on Aug 23, 2019 15:15:19 GMT -5
Talking small degrees of perfection here. Not too sure what AZL coupler "whiskers" are. Maybe I'll take one apart and have a look...
When you take apart an AZL coupler, remove the top_plate/lid from the draft gear box and expose the gut's...it's a two-piece design; knuckle_shank & lip_shank...mostly importantly, no ridiculous slinky-spring. One of them has what I call "whisker's" or "retaining_arms"...there are 2 [one on each side]...both of those are what you need to trim with an exacto/razor blade by 1/2 to allow for sway movement; you will know exactly what I'm talking about soon as you open her up.Judging by the number of Outland Models sold at eBay I am not sure prototypical is everyone's target. 😵 On the topic of the couplers here is one from an AZL Amtrak bombardier set I inspected (and replaced) before sending to a customer. Broken one is at the right in case that wasn't clear.  |
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Post by cjm413 on Aug 23, 2019 16:26:20 GMT -5
+1 for Full Throttle trucks Another benefit is the shorter coupling distance. What couplers do you think are best for z-scale???
The more AZL engines & rolling stock you decide to buy and actually run [not just sit static on a diorama or shelf...], the more you will understand what I am talking about; quality control issues. AZL coupler's seem to exhibit two consistent flaws throughout the years: 1.] too stiff not allowing for enough sway_movement into easements+curves...*this is especially true when you install the pilot/plow on a trailing unit and between the head_out/first car causing lift-off derailment's, and 2.] they come apart pretty easily or just flat out fall apart...[more of an issue with their earlier batch of releases & factory, not so much now].
To correct the issue of AZL couplers being too stiff causing the truck/wheelsets to literally lift-off the head of the rail and not allowing for enough sway movement, remove the lid from the draft gear box to access the actual coupler/shank's and trim_back the 2 "whiskers" by 1/2 with an exacto; reassemble, done.......or...you can swap her out entirely with minor modification to an MTL #905 [002 02 021].Â
I have yet to have a single above mentioned issue, nor any issue with Full Throttle roller bearing trucks...and, they are actually more to scale/smaller than AZL; both have metal insulated wheelsets. It's 2019...get roller bearing trucks...unless, you're modeling an older era and older equipment...get Bettendorf.Â
My advice, keep and fix your AZL couplers on your AZL equipment...replace MTL trucks and plastic wheelsets with Full Throttle; it's just not cost-practical to replace everything with Full Throttle. AZL is good for replacing defective coupler's/part's/equipment though, just get in touch with Rob Kluz or one of the AZL bosses in an e-mail or message; regardless of what they send...you're still going to need to trim back the whisker's until their factory make's corrections.
Have a link:Â Full Throttle: Trucks & Wheelsets
And another:Â MTL #905
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Post by sanluisobispozscaler on Aug 23, 2019 21:51:18 GMT -5
WOW!! thank you everyone for chiming in with your incredibly helpful knowledge!! I had not even heard of Full Throttle yet, so that is cool to know there is yet another option besides MTL and AZL. I really appreciate you all taking the time to explain all this valuable info So today I got my AZL loco and 5 freight cars in the mail... put them on the layout and the quality is amazing. The cars are heavier than MTL and the metal wheels are awesome. The sound they make when operating is music to my ears!! And most importantly... they haven't come uncoupled yet. So I think in my eyes they are an improvement over MTL trucks and I will definitely be switching over my MTL freight cars to use AZL trucks. Well... I'm off to buy more AZL locos and cars |
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Post by Rob Albritton on Aug 23, 2019 22:00:48 GMT -5
Welcome aboard! Our AZL computers will automatically couple together (with a little force)... ...and the AZL couplers connect well too. Hehehe. You got me! |
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For my n-scale trains I bought Micro Trains couplers (I heard these were the best for n-scale?) and I put those on every car to try and make the train run as good as possible... and that brings me to my question for you all:
One of them has what I call "whisker's" or "retaining_arms"...there are 2 [one on each side]...both of those are what you need to trim with an exacto/razor blade by 1/2 to allow for sway movement; you will know exactly what I'm talking about soon as you open her up. *Especially make sure you do this when you install the pilot_plow and run that unit in the trailing position [behind the lead unit; B-end to A-end]...unless you prefer a giant gaping hole in the front for aesthetics & realism...or again, cherry-pick your prototyping? [or as I previously mentioned, you can remove the AZL coupler and install an MTL #905 body mount coupler in it's place].
