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Post by markm on Jan 25, 2017 13:13:33 GMT -5
Point taken on the diner. I didn't mean to say that a train would be complete with just adding an observation car. I was referring to whenever MTL releases their passenger cars in new paint schemes, they always do it in a set of four. Consisting of a baggage car, a sleeper, a coach (or two coaches if they don't include a dome car), and sometimes a dome car. No observation, diner, lounge, parlor, rpo, or anything else. Just the four body styles. UP and SP retired their observation cars fairly early and replaced them with a tail light in the vestibule of the last sleeper on the train. For me the only observation cars of interest are for the California Zephyr. But I agree that MTL are milking their 4 body styles to death without really providing a modeling solution. I think more and more people are looking for modeling solutions rather than the pieces. I can't model any real train with their cars. To get a UP City train I have to add a couple of AZL heavyweights to get something that looks right. Even the P42 and superliners are a bit incomplete. For my modeling interests the best solutions are the AZL AC-12 and the Sunset Limited, and the Marklin Daylight and CZ sets. In the larger scales companies like Walthers seem to be doing well with the "El Capitan" or "20th Century" in a box. I would think with the speed that some of AZL car sets have sold out, the same would be true in Z. Mark
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Post by boxcarwilly on Jan 26, 2017 12:21:09 GMT -5
Regarding MTL: Since the company was sold several years ago, and the loss of their engine manufacturer in China, they have had no interest in producing anything new in relation to body styles and such. They just keep re-releasing the same cars with the same liveries hoping all the while that we won't notice. I think they need some new blood in that company who has forward thinking. My sources have told me that MTL overall sales the last two years have tumbled dramatically. Could they be on the verge of closing altogether?
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Post by fulingyu on Jan 26, 2017 21:26:08 GMT -5
Regarding MTL: Since the company was sold several years ago, and the loss of their engine manufacturer in China, they have had no interest in producing anything new in relation to body styles and such. They just keep re-releasing the same cars with the same liveries hoping all the while that we won't notice. I think they need some new blood in that company who has forward thinking. My sources have told me that MTL overall sales the last two years have tumbled dramatically. Could they be on the verge of closing altogether? Willy, I don't know if they'll close down, but they do seem to be just going "through the motions" and not putting out anything new in terms of body style and new models. Their Per Diem series was essentially repaints but using their same old 50 foot box cars. Their next series GN circus cars is repaints using their existing 40 foot boxcar model. Their weathered series is basically a "repaint" of their existing cars. And like I pointed out earlier, their passenger cars are repaints of their four generic body styles. It's hard to get excited about their lineup so I can see why their sales are down. Oh, and their latest release was more UP F7's. While I like UP, I have enough F7's and it would be nice to have more variety in terms of locomotive power. Who knows, maybe they'll start re-releasing their SD40-2's? I really would not want to see MTL close down, as it hurts our hobby. But I would also like to see them put a little more effort into improving our hobby by creating and releasing newer models and styles. I think this would help by creating more excitement and drawing more people into the hobby with more variety of products. Oh, and sorry for hijacking your thread, but this seemed like an important side topic.
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Post by zscalehobo on Jan 26, 2017 23:00:40 GMT -5
Regarding MTL: Since the company was sold several years ago, and the loss of their engine manufacturer in China, they have had no interest in producing anything new in relation to body styles and such. They just keep re-releasing the same cars with the same liveries hoping all the while that we won't notice. I think they need some new blood in that company who has forward thinking. My sources have told me that MTL overall sales the last two years have tumbled dramatically. Could they be on the verge of closing altogether? When were they sold? I never heard this. It's still the daughter of the original founder, Keith Edwards. Eric Smith is the listed owner ( viewed today at Manta) and his wife is Vicki (Edwards). MTL "About Us" page on their website: LINKMTL Factory Tour video featuring Eric Smith and they mention his wife Vicki ( link to video at key moment) as being the daughter of Keith. While I do not have ANY deep insider information, I did hear that their resources were tied up with the N scale "new" SW1500 release. The modern locomotives (SD40, GP9, GP35) were killed by a price spike in the motor ... when Maxon hiked their price, MTL couldn't produce the locomotives at a competitive rate. These locos were not killed by the manufacturer issue. The manufacturer issue screwed up their supply of Micro-Track, not locos. Locos have always been built in the USA. Check your sources. Between the dedicated resources on the N SW1500 and the inability to get Maxon motors, this meant no new locos in Z. The communication I had was in 2014 with someone who is no longer with the company. With regards to the N Scale SW1500 at present ... in case you missed it, check out this image: Notice the "LAST CALL" at the lower right corner ... that they have done their "last production run of the SW1500..." Putting dots together, we are left to ask ... soooooo, what's next? Now they need a new locomotive release ... could it be Z scale? I sure hope so. The trendy thing to do at this time is to take potshots at Micro-Trains and I do not think that is fair to them. A recent comparison is Marklin... much to the disappointment of American Marklin collectors, Marklin has not issued any new USA locomotives in z scale for this 2017 season. So, it's not just Micro-Trains who are "appearing" to back away. In all honesty, I think both companies respect what AZL is bringing to the market and then focusing on the areas that need filling in. That is: MTL is focusing on rolling stock. Marklin is focusing on European releases ... hopefully both companies are working on something else for the USA motive power in the background. But you just cannot introduce new locomotives when AZL is pretty much dominating the USA proto scene. AZL has a big technical advantage in detail, performance, and pricing. Going to be hard for both Marklin and MTL to get a foothold back into that market.
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Post by QcKraag on Jan 27, 2017 0:04:26 GMT -5
We really do need to get more people into this hobby, thank god new comers are coming to Z
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Post by boxcarwilly on Jan 27, 2017 13:05:23 GMT -5
Frank:
Sorry to have to contradict you re: MTL engines, but they were made in China. MTL wanted to bring all the engine molds and tooling back to the US but the Chinese government wouldn't allow it siting it was all property of the people of China and therefore would not be going out of country. MTL had no other resources to fall back on. I found all this out when I contacted Joe at MTL regarding problems I was having with my SD40 and GP35 couplers and I wanted to send them back for inspection and repair, but was told that they couldn't help me since they no longer serviced any of their old engines and that's when he explained the situation with the manufacturer. You are quite right however about the original owner's daughter and her husband buying the company, and it wasn't just a case of pursuing N scale exclusively, but that there just wasn't any interest in continuing operations at all. I was told that it is the employees who persisted in keeping MTL alive, and that is the case now, but management has no interest in pursuing new projects. The SW's in N scale are the last of anything new you will see out of MTL. It has nothing to do with AZL and what it produces, it's more to do with attitude and apathy. I suspect that within the next few years, MTL will become a distant memory and Joe and all the rest of MTL's employees will be looking for work elsewhere. I suspect that MTL exists today just as a tax write off for the owners.
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Post by zscalehobo on Jan 28, 2017 3:30:05 GMT -5
Sorry to have to contradict you re: MTL engines, but they were made in China. This photo was just taken of 2 SD40-2's, GP9, and 2 x GP35's. All say "Made in the USA" right on them.
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Post by markm on Jan 28, 2017 6:19:20 GMT -5
It's a bit unfortunate to find the story being rehashed after a half dozen years, but here we go again. The MTL chassis were built by the Asian company Sanda Kan which for business reasons elected to trim it's customer base: www.modelretailer.com/en/The%20Industry/Industry%20News/2010/06/Sanda%20Kan.aspxAs you can see, MTL was in good company at the time. As far as the "Made in..." MTL manufactured the shell and I believe final assembly. So they could use "USA" in the same way Ford can even though their cars have Takata air bags.
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Post by QcKraag on Jan 28, 2017 12:15:45 GMT -5
I was just at the microtrains booth at the Springfield train show and asked aboutproduct developement and yes they just confirmed, no new developpement other than repaints and a business car coming...
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Post by boxcarwilly on Jan 28, 2017 13:11:55 GMT -5
Well, I guess that says it all doesn't it? What's the point of staying in business if you're not going to produce anything new? So sad.
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Post by zscalehobo on Jan 28, 2017 17:32:58 GMT -5
The MTL chassis were built by the Asian company Sanda Kan Thanks for this reminder, Mark. My source at MTL neglected to pass along this information about the chassis production in China. I'm going to remain optimistic about MTL until I hear official word. It sure doesn't look good, but I try to remain positive.
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Post by QcKraag on Jan 29, 2017 7:26:43 GMT -5
The guy at the Atlas booth said that the problem with MTL is that compared to AZL, their engines aren't priprietary, they would have to produce new engines if they produced new locomotives. On the juicy side, for Z scale he said to stay tuned this year for their annoucement of turnouts to go with their flex track, now that the rail joiner issue was resolved... they are restocked in full everywhere. The decline of Mtl might be the reason Atlas is slowly putting a foot in our door?
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Post by zscalehobo on Jan 29, 2017 13:04:13 GMT -5
The guy at the Atlas booth said that the problem with MTL is that compared to AZL, their engines aren't priprietary, they would have to produce new engines if they produced new locomotives. On the juicy side, for Z scale he said to stay tuned this year for their annoucement of turnouts to go with their flex track, now that the rail joiner issue was resolved... they are restocked in full everywhere. The decline of Mtl might be the reason Atlas is slowly putting a foot in our door? Thanks for the update on the joiners, been wondering when I can get these into stock. I really wouldn't read too much into discussions at a show, MTL likely isn't going to leak some information about development of a z loco. Imagine if they did, we'd see monthly "where are the z scale locomotive" posts in the message boards. They will blast it to their normal advertising and dealer routes, not to someone in passing their booth at a show. #positive
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Post by QcKraag on Jan 29, 2017 13:50:54 GMT -5
Well they did seem...how could I say... surprised that this topic was a discussion we were having, yet really unsurprised and maybe a tad gloomy at the question itself, foreboding
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Post by QcKraag on Jan 29, 2017 18:35:04 GMT -5
I just found it weird that AZL wasn't there
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