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Post by Rob Albritton on Apr 18, 2024 19:11:40 GMT -5
The other thing is, probably can get a roof 3D printed so it's less of an issue if it happens. Or maybe AZL World Headquarters has some lying around. Nope. Sorry. Don’t have spare roof pieces.
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rvn2001
Engineer
Posts: 249
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Post by rvn2001 on Apr 18, 2024 19:16:00 GMT -5
I'm curious, Edward. Why do you want to remove the roof of the autorack?
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Post by dazed on Apr 18, 2024 19:55:32 GMT -5
I'm curious, Edward. Why do you want to remove the roof of the autorack? I can answer this one. First, to make it easier to weather the roof, which often has wildly different weathering effects compared to the rest of the car. Second, to repaint the car entirely. There are dozens upon dozens of schemes that AZL has not done. Other possibilities: Add an EOT circuit?
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Post by dazed on Apr 18, 2024 19:57:38 GMT -5
The other thing is, probably can get a roof 3D printed so it's less of an issue if it happens. Or maybe AZL World Headquarters has some lying around. Nope. Sorry. Don’t have spare roof pieces. Thank you! I was half-kidding but I appreciate your reply. Rob Albritton Hans Riddervold (AZL) Any plans for more auto racks at some point?
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Post by dazed on Apr 18, 2024 23:12:35 GMT -5
Right. So, I use a precision flat head screwdriver and steam - yes, steam. I utilize steam in the same way I use it to straighten out Scenic Express SuperTrees, direct application. Holding the car at both the A-end and B-end, place the roof a few inches from the steam being discharged - this will help soften the factory adhesive and allow you to slowly pry up the roof, working from the outside ends first, then towards the 2 center roof support posts. I also recommend adding a single wrap of Super 88 vinyl electrical tape around the shaft of the screwdriver to help protect the car body and roof, as this is being used a leverage. I have done over 10+ autoracks this way and haven't broken one yet. Can you give us a rough idea of how long this takes for the glue to soften? I attempted it tonight with the second half of my broken roof and never was able to make much headway. And I had the benefit of the steam going directly into the inside since half of my roof is gone. Do you just use steam from boiling water or do you have like a clothes steamer you use?
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Post by Edward on Apr 19, 2024 1:59:06 GMT -5
Flip the car over and use a carbide grinding/sanding wheel to dremel down the bolster supports lowering the car to a more prototypical ride height, as they do sit a bit high. You can also add etched brass ladders and sill plates: wash, prime, spray. Drill and tap to body mount mtl true-scale couplers, or 905s. I have not seen the MTL true scale couplers being used in Z scale… can you share a photo?
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Post by ednadolski on Apr 19, 2024 16:16:53 GMT -5
Flip the car over and use a carbide grinding/sanding wheel to dremel down the bolster supports lowering the car to a more prototypical ride height, as they do sit a bit high. You can also add etched brass ladders and sill plates: wash, prime, spray. Drill and tap to body mount mtl true-scale couplers, or 905s. I have not seen the MTL true scale couplers being used in Z scale… can you share a photo?
Here is an example installation that I put together with a few MT cars and the long-shank TSC. The white pockets are a 3D print (from Shapeways, IIRC) and were for N scale, so they are too long. It should not be hard to come up with something similar for Z, but if you are going to body-mount on autoracks then that would only be suitable for running on large radius curves. (What is 'large radius' by Z standards anyways -- 15"? 18"? more?)
(Sorry if that pic is too big -- I'm not sure how to make it smaller)
Ed
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Post by scalecalamity on Apr 19, 2024 17:32:36 GMT -5
I don't recommend it. Its just not practical in terms of cost, operations sensitivity, and time invested into doing this conversion on a large fleet of cars - but is 100% doable. Also know, I don't recommend using a body mount coupler on anything less than a 270mm radius; I use a minimum of 220mm for all testing in Z that isn't body mounted. Any imperfection in your track work will bare it's teeth using these. I really only recommend this retro-fit for select static show-piece cars at an industry/spur, or on dedicated unit trains as they are not compatible with anything else. They do reduce the oversized spacing between cars and eliminate that silly slinky effect caused by spring-loaded couplers. Note though, you will not be able to uncouple with magnets. You will need to cut the screw to length depending on the car body and if it has an internal weight-slab, and trim the air hose - add a bit of tamiya flat aluminum to simulate a gladhand connection. (00-90 screws from 905's are too short). Full Throttle trucks (chopped), 33" wheels (more scale accurate for an autorack). If you don't want to do a full body mount, fun fact: mtl tsc's do fit inside the AZL draft gear box - just make sure to cut off the retaining arms. (they do not fit inside a 905 - the plastic post mold in the gear box is too large). But again, they are not compatible with another coupler. (ref. size comparison photo). *For QoL improvements, trim down the retention arms/aka whiskers the same way you need trim AZL couplers on certain cars to solve derailing issues transitioning from tangent rail into easements//curves. These whiskers make the couplers stiff not allowing for a full proper sway within the draft gear box causing derailments (this tension literally pulls & lifts the wheels over the rail).
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Post by scalecalamity on Apr 19, 2024 17:33:44 GMT -5
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Post by ednadolski on Apr 19, 2024 20:42:34 GMT -5
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Post by Edward on Apr 20, 2024 2:59:17 GMT -5
Well… those look fantastic!!
I have already converted almost all of my rolling stock and all of my locomotives to AZL or similar trucks with metal wheel sets. Same with my couplers. I don’t run any trucks or couplers from MTL. I can’t stand the slinky effect or their undersized trucks. I am going mostly body mount with great success. I was experimenting with some 3D printed couplers and “draw bars” that looked like a pair of couplers connected. I even have a few “scale” couplers for my leaders. I’ll be posting photos and my results in the near future.
Sounds like I won’t want the whiskers, I have no need for them to self center, my train sets don’t need to come apart to be switched.
As for the auto racks, I have already shortened the bolsters and trimmed out room the wheel flange to clear and not rub on the floors. I also added the etched ladders. My next goal is to thin up the roof and end doors. I have about a dozen racks I plan on repainting that I had custom artwork made up for already.
This is what I absolutely love about this forum is sharing and learning new ideas. I just ordered a few sets of TSC to experiment with.
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Post by Edward on Apr 20, 2024 3:37:11 GMT -5
I have not seen the MTL true scale couplers being used in Z scale… can you share a photo?
The white pockets are a 3D print (from Shapeways, IIRC) and were for N scale, so they are too long.
Ed
Do you have a link or vendor name for the pockets? I can not seem to find the “magic word” to find them in search.
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Post by ednadolski on Apr 20, 2024 13:16:22 GMT -5
The white pockets are a 3D print (from Shapeways, IIRC) and were for N scale, so they are too long.
Ed
Do you have a link or vendor name for the pockets? I can not seem to find the “magic word” to find them in search.
Hm, looks like Jason took down the page. Here is a link to the original discussion page on TRW. IIRC he has a link to download the .stl file, as well as showing the mods to the coupler shank (to reduce the coupling force).
Please bear in mind, that discussion is focused on N scale, tho I see no reason why it could not be adapted for Z. One idea I have is to make the pocket an intergral part of the underframe for a freight car (or the pilots for a loco).
(Apologies, did not mean to drift the thread OT from the autorack discussion.)
Ed
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Post by Edward on Apr 22, 2024 1:57:30 GMT -5
Thanks! Did you try the files out yet? Also do you have a photo showing the underside of your cars with the pockets installed? I’m just trying to get an idea here.
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Post by ednadolski on Apr 23, 2024 12:19:31 GMT -5
Hi Edward, I have some drawings put together, but they are still a WIP and not printed yet. (There are some car dimensions I need to work out.) If folks are interested, I can start a separate thread (with pics) when this makes some further progress.
Ed
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