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Post by lclmopar426 on Jan 28, 2023 14:19:26 GMT -5
Howdy all,
I'm thinking I'm going to do DCC for my layout. Ive heard good things about NCE and Digitrax. I'm looking for the best starter setup to run 4 or so locos. Any advice on power and decoders is very much appreciated!
I have read of the voltage differences between Z and other scales. I only have or will have newer AZL locos, so it sounds like 12V is what is best, though I'm also not sure!
Logan
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Post by tjdreams on Jan 28, 2023 19:26:29 GMT -5
Will this be for home use or at shows or at a local group or club? If your going to use this DCC setup at a local club, group, or show find out what they use and get the same.
Both the NCE PowerCab and Digitrax Zephyr are good starter sets. While most everyone will agree they are the top 2 starter sets, You will get lots of arguments about which is #1 and which is #2 Each one has its advantages and disadvantages over the other. I have both, Personally I like Digitrax Signaling options better than NCE but You can't go wrong with either one. However both systems put out approximately 13.6 so you may want to use a voltage reducer like the Digitrax UP6Z which works on any DCC system. Or buy a aftermarket 12 volt power supply that is compatible with which ever system you choose.
As for the decoders TCS and Digitrax both make drop in decoders for some AZL and MTL Z scale locos. Then there is Zmodell who makes decoders to fit a couple AZL loco's. Both Digitrax and Velmo make drop in decoders for some Marklin models. For hard wiring there are several different options it really depends on which loco your trying to put a decoder in. Generally speaking if its small enough to fit under the shell it will work'
With all that being said before you buy one I highly recommend you find a local club or group or show in your area who uses DCC in any scale and go check out their setup ask why they chose to go with the system they did.
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Post by lclmopar426 on Jan 28, 2023 19:46:24 GMT -5
I was just by the local N scale club today actually. They use Digitrax because it is what they have been using for years. They mentioned that the NCE system is good from what they have heard, but did not have firsthand experience with it.
I am leaning towards the Digitrax system, but I think conceptually there are some things that I am missing to fully wrap my head around how DCC functions.
It will be solely for my setup at home and not for any shows, etc.
I was looking on Zscalemonster and I saw they have the Zephyr starter kit. I am assuming that this kit comes with everything I would need to get started in DCC, less the voltage reducer which is listed right beside it
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Post by tjdreams on Jan 28, 2023 19:54:42 GMT -5
The Digitrax Zephyr DCS52 will have everything but the wires to connect it to the track.
And you will have to buy and install the appropriate decoder for each of your locos
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Post by markm on Jan 28, 2023 20:09:33 GMT -5
Logan, Yes there are DC voltage differences between various manufacturers (8-12V, less if you run Rokuhan shorties), but remember for DCC that’s track power: you control the power to the motor. 12V DCC is appropriate in Z. With full power applied to the tracks, it’s good to keep that voltage as low as practical and have good short circuit protection. Z scale hardware can melt real easy in a derailment. I have an NCE Power Cab, generally considered for Z starter, and am very satisfied. I haven’t run it with 4 trains but does well with at least that many locomotives. Part of your decision should be based on your layout plans. Large layout? Multiple operators? DCC accessories? Computer control? If so, he Power Cab wouldn’t be a good choice. I’ll let people with that experience comment. For decoders, the choice should be based on the the advanced features. All the decoders do the basic NMRA DCC operations the same so basic operations are the same. If you think you might want advanced features in the future, consider checking out the programming manuals: drupal.tcsdcc.com/file/5973/download?token=P6sWZ35twww.digitrax.com/static/apps/cms/media/documents/documentation/Decoder_Manual_V2-01_2014.pdfHope this helps, Mark
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Post by lclmopar426 on Jan 28, 2023 20:20:08 GMT -5
I appreciate it fellas. I have the wiring and such that some other folks recommended. I think I may need a different solder than what I chose but that is an easy fix! Now just to get some decoders
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Post by husafreak on Jan 28, 2023 21:37:15 GMT -5
The real experts have answered but since I'm a newbie like you I'll chime in. I had the same questions as you not very long ago. I met some Z scale "pros" at a train show near me who were using NCE Powercab's so that is what I got and I'll tell you my local contact was very helpful to me in the beginning when I had a LOT of questions. Thank you, Jeff! So use what those local guys you met are using (Digitrax) and they can help you because they know the equipment and when you get a chance to run your trains with them it will go smoothly and they can answer even more of your questions! DCC can be overwhelming and since this is Z scale you will have to do your own decoder installations but it is very rewarding. I think it was R Ray who said that the difference between TCS and Digitrax was a Ford VS Chevy argument, I'm sure he said he likes Digitrax because they just work. They are both major players. I have had good success with both but I did have issues I could not resolve when using TCS boards in my AZL ES44AC's, replacing them with digitrax boards solved my problems, and those same TCS boards went on to provide sterling service in different AZL locos! Twilight Zone? It's Z scale I also have some Zmodell boards, my they are smooth runners, probably the best money can buy. The last thing I would say is make sure this is really something you want to pursue, it is a lot to learn and a lot to do. and since it is Z scale there is not a huge difference in what a DC and a DCC loco can do (for us mere mortals). I enjoy it but I'll bet there are others who have no interest in DCC and don't suffer one bit because they don't have it.
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Post by zman on Jan 29, 2023 7:53:44 GMT -5
I found, when I first started, that DCC is way beyond my fat fingers capability in Z scale. I do have DCC on my N scale layout and still have some challenges but patience overcomes my lack of skills. I have three small Z scale layouts that are all DC and have fun with switching operations and oval running. True I do not have multiple locomotives running in different directions but that is okay. I isolate the sections where I park unused locomotives. Good luck!!
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kenn
New Member
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Post by kenn on Feb 17, 2023 12:15:07 GMT -5
I would dearly love to see AZL release both diesel and steam DCC-installed locos given the micro-work required to install it. I'm sticking with N until there are some DCC-ready options but would love to do Z as I have very limited space.
AZL - what is the chance you'll have DCC-installed locos in the near future? I'll take an SD70ACe, a 4014 big boy, and a heavy Mikado, please.
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Post by zscalehobo on Feb 17, 2023 12:40:49 GMT -5
They did that already at one point; but then the difficulty to stock two different line items in their stores. It isn't trivial for them, either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2023 13:25:36 GMT -5
Offering DCC already installed as an option would be OK ; but mounting the decoders systematically into the locos and NOT giving the opportunity to buy a standard DC loco (I saw such a suggestion for Märklin locos) would be an error with regard to the modellers who DON'T absolutely not want DCC ; I have a friend with a N-layout who absolutely dislikes DCC ; and I have even a logo on the rear window of my car, which I don't wanna show here, it's ... worse !
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kenn
New Member
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Post by kenn on Feb 17, 2023 13:47:09 GMT -5
They did that already at one point; but then the difficulty to stock two different line items in their stores. It isn't trivial for them, either. They certainly don't have to do all their lines... 3 or 4 of the most popular and offer those.
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Post by tjdreams on Feb 17, 2023 14:14:04 GMT -5
Why not just install the decoder yourself? Its not hard and its even easier with the newer ones like the PA1 Remove shell, remove 4 screws holding the board down, lift the old board straight up set it aside Put the new DCC board in its place, Replace the 4 screws, Put the shell back on , place on the track and program your desired road number. Done ready to go.
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Post by Kez on Feb 17, 2023 16:21:34 GMT -5
They did that already at one point; but then the difficulty to stock two different line items in their stores. It isn't trivial for them, either. They certainly don't have to do all their lines... 3 or 4 of the most popular and offer those. AZL tried this, and it did not work out. They simply do not have the personnel to install and test decoders, AND deal with the public and the issues that arise. I do not expect that this will ever happen again in the future.
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Post by Curn on Feb 17, 2023 16:27:14 GMT -5
I would still go for the NEC powercab as a starter set.
But if you have a amplitude for electronics, a minimal programing (like adding you home network ID/password to some code and uploading it to an Arduino, DCC++EX is also fun. You build your own system with some really cheap open hardware, and use your smart phone as a wireless throttle.
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