DanG
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by DanG on Sept 7, 2021 14:22:26 GMT -5
I've been building smaller DC layouts but I'm getting ready to do my 1st DCC layout. I'm planning on going with a Digitrax system and for that reason would prefer to use Digitrax decoders. Could I get some input on the pros and cons of one MFG over the other (aside from the TCS decoders being a few bucks more)?
Also, Model Train Stuff has the DZ123Z0 listed as "(In Retirement)". I opened a ticket to Digitrax and received a reply that "The DZ123Z0 is an active product still in production." Anyone have any inside information?
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Post by marmot on Sept 7, 2021 17:04:22 GMT -5
Isn't the Digitrax 3-function while the TCS is 4-function? If so, how significant is that? Or, what function might you miss with the Digitrax?
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Post by tjdreams on Sept 7, 2021 17:44:23 GMT -5
Their was a thread i think on Trainboard about the the Decoders Something about get them while you can.
Model Train Stuff and a few other dealers supposedly jumped to the wrong conclusion when digitrax ran out of stock.
Its nothing to worry about. They are NOT In Retirement Like everything else the Pandemic has caused some shipment delays
AZL Contacted Digitrax back in July and is Supplying them with the components they need to continue production
of the decoders.
So some dealers may be low on stock until the next run is complete, But the Good News is more DZ123Z0 Decoders are in the works
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DanG
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by DanG on Sept 7, 2021 19:31:04 GMT -5
Digitrax DZ123Z0 - Is a 2 function Series 3 (FX3) decoder. The TCS AZL4 is a 4-function but I can't figure out if it is or would be considered a Series 3 (FX3) or a Series 6 (FX6)?
I know that the Series 6 decoders have better algorithms for special lighting effects.
What I don't know is the awnsers to the questions posted by marmot.
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Post by BAZman on Sept 9, 2021 13:02:00 GMT -5
The Digitrax DZ123 series are:
Fx3
2 function
Technically ‘retired’ in the *wired* version, not the DZ123ZØ for AZL (nor the MTL DZ123MØ). Their ‘current’ 2-function wired decoders are Series 6, many years later than these ‘3’s.
Both TCS and DigiTrax decoders are fully compatible with any DCC system.
Digitrax: 2 function, TCS: 4 function. Neither of them have the LED placed close enough to the plastic optic to properly light the front and rear lenses.
Both have the same/similar function effects such as Rule of 17 (dim lights), MARS, becan, etc. And Function controls such as re-addressing the reverse light not turn on in an F unit.
He would normally only need the four function TCS if you wanted to do ditch lights and or yard beacon in a diesel type locomotive.
The TCS decoder does not have the correct BEMF motor control functions (acknowledged by them) so you may see a locomotive run away at speed step 1 or very unstable performance at low speed starting’s. This is due to higher friction in the Loco drive chain, which should be noticeable in DC). Simply turn the EMF off in CV 61. I have had zero problems with several dozen Digitrax decoders.
Neither of them are a completely simple “drop in“ installation. Both require some solder removal too sure that it can be placed into the frame with significant tension to retain electrical contact after being forced really wedged in there. The TCS decoder has a single much taller capacitor that can/will short to tie frame. The component is on the bottom of the board and some chassis (e.g. SD45) have more metal above the motor.
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Post by Rob Albritton on Sept 10, 2021 11:36:54 GMT -5
I've been building smaller DC layouts but I'm getting ready to do my 1st DCC layout. I'm planning on going with a Digitrax system and for that reason would prefer to use Digitrax decoders. Could I get some input on the pros and cons of one MFG over the other (aside from the TCS decoders being a few bucks more)? Also, Model Train Stuff has the DZ123Z0 listed as "(In Retirement)". I opened a ticket to Digitrax and received a reply that "The DZ123Z0 is an active product still in production." Anyone have any inside information? Yes, I have direct knowledge of the situation. We supply Digitrax with the metal tabs that go from the decoder to the motor on the DZ123Z0. They ran out about 9 months ago. When that happened, they notified dealers that the product was no longer available. We re-supplied them about a month ago (august 2021) and they said they would resume production, and notify dealers that their back orders would now be filled. I assume there are some dealers that have not yet updated their systems with this information since all of the changes have taken place in the last 30 days. AZL Digitrax decoders should be available again now, or very very soon. Best, -R |
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Post by ptitrainrouge on Sept 11, 2021 1:12:56 GMT -5
thank you for us who are on the DCC side, without these easy decoders I would not continue buying locos in Z scale
I've been building smaller DC layouts but I'm getting ready to do my 1st DCC layout. I'm planning on going with a Digitrax system and for that reason would prefer to use Digitrax decoders. Could I get some input on the pros and cons of one MFG over the other (aside from the TCS decoders being a few bucks more)? Also, Model Train Stuff has the DZ123Z0 listed as "(In Retirement)". I opened a ticket to Digitrax and received a reply that "The DZ123Z0 is an active product still in production." Anyone have any inside information? Yes, I have direct knowledge of the situation. We supply Digitrax with the metal tabs that go from the decoder to the motor on the DZ123Z0. They ran out about 9 months ago. When that happened, they notified dealers that the product was no longer available. We re-supplied them about a month ago (august 2021) and they said they would resume production, and notify dealers that their back orders would now be filled. I assume there are some dealers that have not yet updated their systems with this information since all of the changes have taken place in the last 30 days. AZL Digitrax decoders should be available again now, or very very soon. Best, -R |
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Post by husafreak on Sept 22, 2021 4:43:53 GMT -5
There are tons of comparisons on the various forums with our most expert Z scalers contributing, such as Jeff’s above. If you only need motor and basic lighting my favorite quotes are “it’s a Ford VS Chevy” thing, and “ I use Digitrax because they just work”.
I have very little experience but will share mine using both mfg boards with a pair of AZL ES44 AC’s. I followed Jeff’s advice carefully but could not get good running with the TCS drop in boards, I even had one exchanged by TCS after speaking with their tech department person. Over a year invested in learning everything I could about TCS and the AZL locos and track maintenance. I learned a lot but was never successful. I finally tried the Digitrax drop in boards, problem solved, excellent running locos.
I dislike making posts like this because it is not fair to TCS as many have great success with their products and they provide great support. But that is what happened for me in my first DCC experience with the ES44AC chassis.
I use NCE Powercab and Rokuhan track.
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Post by bogtudor on Oct 19, 2021 16:36:34 GMT -5
Hi, In my experience, TCS runs better and quieter but Digitrax runs with fewer pick-up power interruptions. Because of this I ended up switching TCS with Digitrax in most of my locomotives. See this older post: azlforum.com/post/18048/thread Also Digitrax decoder is easier to install, the motor tabs are not soldered to the board and can be adjusted. On TCS you can solder an extra led directly to the two front pads (without any resistor) for better front light on older locomotives without optical fiber. Best regards, Bogdan |
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Post by louiez on Sept 3, 2022 1:51:48 GMT -5
Hi, In my experience, TCS runs better and quieter but Digitrax runs with fewer pick-up power interruptions. Because of this I ended up switching TCS with Digitrax in most of my locomotives. See this older post: azlforum.com/post/18048/thread Also Digitrax decoder is easier to install, the motor tabs are not soldered to the board and can be adjusted. On TCS you can solder an extra led directly to the two front pads (without any resistor) for better front light on older locomotives without optical fiber. Best regards, Bogdan I know this is an old thread but ... I've gone the other way. I'm replacing all of my DZ123Z0s with TCS AZL4s. I have never been able to get the Digitrax decoders to run above 50% throttle. Between 50% and 99% there is no difference in speed. The TCS decoders run through the full throttle range. I've also found that the TCS equipped Locos start moving a string of 20 cars at 1% throttle whereas the Digitrax locos require 4% without any cars and at least 7% with 20 cars. I did have issues installing the TCS decoders in a few locos (ES44AC, SD70M). The motor tabs on the TCS are shorter than the Digitrax and won't make reliable connections to the motor. On those locos I had to bend the motor wires up a bit. After that slight modification I've had no problems and they run smooth as silk. |
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Post by BAZman on Sept 3, 2022 14:13:39 GMT -5
Louiez,
What DCC system are you using?
Are you using 'Compatible Mode' ? (to also run analog locos)
Normally, the effects you are seeing come friction in the loco. In the case of the Digitrax, the faster you try to run, it cannot force the motor.
TCS's BEMF is aggressive. It was designed for HO and barely senses Z low motor currents so that over compensate. We have seen this 1st Speed Step aggression.
With the different motors from the 3 manufactures plus, drive line and trucks, there will always be some running characteristics (but somewhat the same per loco model).
You can always put a 9V battery to the trucks to test apparent speed. The decoders will have somewhat different results but same decoder'd locos should be close.
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Post by louiez on Sept 4, 2022 13:36:52 GMT -5
Louiez, What DCC system are you using? Are you using 'Compatible Mode' ? (to also run analog locos) Normally, the effects you are seeing come friction in the loco. In the case of the Digitrax, the faster you try to run, it cannot force the motor. TCS's BEMF is aggressive. It was designed for HO and barely senses Z low motor currents so that over compensate. We have seen this 1st Speed Step aggression. With the different motors from the 3 manufactures plus, drive line and trucks, there will always be some running characteristics (but somewhat the same per loco model). You can always put a 9V battery to the trucks to test apparent speed. The decoders will have somewhat different results but same decoder'd locos should be close. Hello BAZman, I have a Digitrax Evolution Express and I do enable Analog. When I program the decoders I program either a long or short address depending on the Loco's road number. I use CV29=38 for long addresses and CV29=6 for short addresses (both of these enable analog). I leave everything else at factory default. I may try turning off BEMF just to see what happens with the TCS locos. BTW, I found a way to reliably install the TCS decoders without bending the motor contact wires. I just swap the TCS motor contacts with Digitrax motor contacts. |
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Post by BAZman on Sept 4, 2022 15:40:45 GMT -5
I would like for you to try disabling the Evolution's Analog mode, to 'pure' DCC and see what happens with the Digitrax upper speed. This gives many of us DCC users a help topic. And check the TCS too (before you change anything).
TCS: CV61 to 0 (normally 1)
Digitrax: CV54 to 80 (normally 64)
But Digitrax seams to always be trying by including CV's 55, 56 and 57 some ways. I can see the interaction when look at the motor drive with an oscilloscope and changing the load with my finger weight. So you should also set:
CV55 = 0
CV56 = 0
CV57 = 0
TCS is truly off with the one CV61=0
All this may not be necessary setting you system to only DCC mode.
Start another Topic to further this discussion.
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Post by markm on Sept 5, 2022 9:53:22 GMT -5
Start another Topic to further this discussion. Or perhaps a new conversation on the Forum. There is A LOT of good information such as this online, but it’s scattered all over the place here and on TrainBoard. Going forward a service station for discussions about DCC and equipment servicing. Would make it easier for newcomers to find what they need. Perhaps start out with a sticky post with links to all RobK’s videos on the subject. Mark |
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