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Post by husafreak on May 15, 2021 10:39:00 GMT -5
Excellent thread thank you everyone! I have had great success with both Marklin and AZL. But Rick mentioned on another post that he wants to run looong trains and for that you cannot use Marklin locos, and tight curves won't look right either. Loved the point by Alex that it is often easier in Z to just fix stuff yourself. Much less stressful in the end. Chinese quality can be good or bad, usually indicated by the price of the object! We all remember the poor quality in the beginning but that is really ancient history. Haven't seen the Maxi packaging but my understanding is the jewel case is gone? AZL really needs to include instructions with their products, even a note with a QR code or something, often information on their stuff must be ferreted out. But of course after experience with their products you learn to look for it. They are great about producing the necessary info! Finally I have "embarrassed" myself recently complaining on the forum of very slow running locos from AZL. I thought something was wrong for sure! After an hour of running they are fine. I hope this is the case for you as well.
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Post by zscalehobo on May 15, 2021 18:01:19 GMT -5
Haven't seen the Maxi packaging but my understanding is the jewel case is gone?
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Post by husafreak on May 15, 2021 19:46:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the pictures. I guess that it would be ideal if the car bodies were fully enclosed in the tray, maybe the tray should be deeper. If I buy a set, and I want to, I'll get it from a dealer who goes really overboard on protective packaging, guess who that might be
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Post by markm on May 16, 2021 11:17:29 GMT -5
On a fairly regular basis, someone asks about locomotive speed. When I receive a locomotive I will put it through a number of tests to get a feeling of its performance. Let me share some of what I've learned. I use a "220mm" oval: 220mm radius curves with a 220mm straight section. I'll run a locomotive for about a half hour, forward and reverse, clockwise and counter-clockwise at full throttle, half throttle and a low throttle. After this break-in, I expect the locomotive to have similar characteristics running forward and reverse, clockwise and counter-clockwise. While I used to see a substantial difference in performance over this break-in period, not so such with the recent AZL releases. I then run speed measurements from 3-9 volts DC. While most modern locomotives will run well below 3V, some older designs, particularly Märklin, will struggle at lower voltages. Also while most locomotives will operate at voltages up to 12V, the lowest case manufacturer spec is 9V. Besides, above 8V speed gets unrealistically fast. The prototypes were generally geared for a maximum speed of 65MPH under load. Notable exceptions were the EMD E units that were specified to 85MPH, the F7 which had some options to take it to 100MPH for passenger service, and some yard switchers at 55MPH. Here's a sampling of unloaded locomotive performance: While the unloaded performance frequently exceeds the prototype spec, they tend to flatten out under a load of >100gm (about 5 boxcars) or more around 65MPH. Also be aware the typically there is a 10% variation in performance due to manufacturing variations. I hope this helps set expectations for some of the locomotive speeds. Mark
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rick
New Member
Posts: 19
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Post by rick on May 17, 2021 8:27:36 GMT -5
I did some chain-link fencing over the weekend which was super-fiddly but quite rewarding. I've posted an image on the 'weekend' sticky thread. So, thinking that if I could manage to do chain link fencing at that size a wagon bogey should be do-able so I revisited the bogeys on the container flat wagons with a view to trying to fix the pin issues. I didn't get that far. Having looked at another wagon as reference I can see that they aren't going to run reasonably whatever I do. As you can see in the image there is absolutely no clearance between the wheels and the wagon under-carriage. The slightest turn and the wheel knocks against the structure. If the wheel manages to pass the structure with a little force then there's no way it's coming back because in one direction there is a smooth curve but on return it's a straight edge. I declare this wagon set 'not fit for purpose' and an absolute waste of €170. The quality of the Maxi wagon set is in keeping with its packaging. Presumably I got a defective set. There's no-way these would have been accepted by a retailer for resale. Marklin have a nice 5 car set of American freight currently shipping for €135 (10% less with my current German retailer). www.maerklinshop.de/en/maerklin/gauge-z/wagons/freight-car-sets/61173/american-freight-car-setAnd there's a beauty 6 car set (though somewhat more pricey) of European containers soon to be released. www.maerklinshop.de/en/maerklin/gauge-z/wagons/freight-car-sets/62428/container-transport-car-setI shall keep my future container work very much in the European arena.
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Post by zscalehobo on May 17, 2021 10:01:37 GMT -5
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Post by Rob Albritton on May 17, 2021 13:31:09 GMT -5
I nominate this for post of the year!
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Post by scanrail on May 17, 2021 17:54:02 GMT -5
American Z scale rolling stock from Märklin features a strongly outdated design from 80's. It is full of technical compromises that were acceptable in those years, and it is far away from prototypes. When Märklin entered US market with Z scale products for the first time - it was indeed a breakthrough. And there was simply no one to compete with in this area. Now (and already for 10-20 years along), Märklin simply cannot compete with other manufacturers when it comes to US Z scale rolling stock (while their European models are excellent for sure). Sad but true.
By the way, this is the only reason why do they sell their 82498 set for such a bargain price (along with the fact that it is a very old tooling which has repeatedly paid off for a long time). Nevertheless, I see a clear purpose: this set is great for beginners - poorly detailed, but robust and hard to break construction.
AZL manages to implement many things in Z scale that Märklin would never dare to do. However, they can only be appreciated by experienced users - by those for whom prototypical accuracy is much more important than ease of use. I have to admit that in these terms, Maxi-I set is not the best choice for beginners.
In my opinion, it is incorrect to compare Maxi-I with European container flatcars included in 82665 set, since these are two completely different types of rolling stock.
At last, I am happy with my Maxi-I set in Mærsk paint scheme and I cannot wait until AZL releases a matching SD40-2 locomotive.
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Post by zscalehobo on May 17, 2021 19:36:55 GMT -5
Alex: Marklin HAD to have SOMETHING to sell along with their versions of the AZL GP38's (see 88615 & 88616). That's why they dredged up these old molds. I've been asking them to dredge up some steam locos as well for the US market, but have heard only the sound of crickets.
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Post by smr on May 17, 2021 22:00:59 GMT -5
American Z scale rolling stock from Märklin features a strongly outdated design from 80's. It is full of technical compromises that were acceptable in those years, and it is far away from prototypes. When Märklin entered US market with Z scale products for the first time - it was indeed a breakthrough. And there was simply no one to compete with in this area. Now (and already for 10-20 years along), Märklin simply cannot compete with other manufacturers when it comes to US Z scale rolling stock (while their European models are excellent for sure). Sad but true. By the way, this is the only reason why do they sell their 82498 set for such a bargain price (along with the fact that it is a very old tooling which has repeatedly paid off for a long time). Nevertheless, I see a clear purpose: this set is great for beginners - poorly detailed, but robust and hard to break construction. AZL manages to implement many things in Z scale that Märklin would never dare to do. However, they can only be appreciated by experienced users - by those for whom prototypical accuracy is much more important than ease of use. I have to admit that in these terms, Maxi-I set is not the best choice for beginners. In my opinion, it is incorrect to compare Maxi-I with European container flatcars included in 82665 set, since these are two completely different types of rolling stock. At last, I am happy with my Maxi-I set in Mærsk paint scheme and I cannot wait until AZL releases a matching SD40-2 locomotive. I fully agree!!! While we are waiting, here comes a custom painted brass SD40-2 from AZL: Best, Sven
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Post by Rob Albritton on May 18, 2021 6:05:55 GMT -5
I cannot wait until AZL releases a matching SD40-2 locomotive. Hmmm... come to think of it, that's a good idea!
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Post by scanrail on May 18, 2021 7:22:47 GMT -5
Alex: Marklin HAD to have SOMETHING to sell along with their versions of the AZL GP38's (see 88615 & 88616). That's why they dredged up these old molds. I've been asking them to dredge up some steam locos as well for the US market, but have heard only the sound of crickets. Oh, that's a different story! Yes, I know about Marklin 88615 and 88616. In my opinion, it is quite a strange move. Just look: they take the cheapest and less detailed AZL locomotive available for only $100, fit it with their ugly hooks and sell it for as much as 210 Euro - which equals to $256! Each German customer can get this loco directly from the USA for a significantly lower price, even after paying a customs tax and higher shipping costs! Of course, I understand that most local buyers won't do this and choose to pay more and get the loco from local dealers, but I am definitely not among them... I believe if Marklin wanted to re-enter US Z scale market once again, they should better developed something really new, as there is still a lot of work in Z scale. But they definitely don't want to make huge investments in this area... Regarding their old steamers - yes, I agree with you - they could indeed refresh some of them with new features - warm white LEDs, new coreless motors and detailed valve gear. It would not be a huge investment. I don't mean Marklin's Mikado - in my opinion, even with all enhancements, this model will hardly compete with AZL's very detailed variant. But for example, they could revive their old 4-6-0 steamer (88036, www.maerklin.de/en/products/details/article/88036), as a suitable updated chassis with new features already exists (81302, www.maerklin.de/en/products/details/article/81302). Greetings, Alex
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Post by ztrack on May 18, 2021 7:52:39 GMT -5
Rick, yes the wheels will touch the frame if you turn the truck as much as possible. But that is far past the recommended minimum radius for these sets. The broader the curves the better. While we tested on 195mm curves, you really want 220mm and above. The well cars from Micro-Trains trucks will also touch the frame if you turn the trucks as much as possible.
Please see this video. We tested the MAXI sets with MTL's well cars. The curve that you can't see on the left is 195mm. At about 2 minutes in you can see how close the cars get when they navigate 195mm curves. All MAXI cars have been tuned per the video posted earlier.
Rob
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Post by Commodore on May 18, 2021 8:30:17 GMT -5
Alex: Marklin HAD to have SOMETHING to sell along with their versions of the AZL GP38's (see 88615 & 88616). That's why they dredged up these old molds. I've been asking them to dredge up some steam locos as well for the US market, but have heard only the sound of crickets. Oh, that's a different story! Yes, I know about Marklin 88615 and 88616. In my opinion, it is quite a strange move. Just look: they take the cheapest and less detailed AZL locomotive available for only $100, fit it with their ugly hooks and sell it for as much as 210 Euro - which equals to $256! Each German customer can get this loco directly from the USA for a significantly lower price, even after paying a customs tax and higher shipping costs! Of course, I understand that most local buyers won't do this and choose to pay more and get the loco from local dealers, but I am definitely not among them... I believe if Marklin wanted to re-enter US Z scale market once again, they should better developed something really new, as there is still a lot of work in Z scale. But they definitely don't want to make huge investments in this area... Regarding their old steamers - yes, I agree with you - they could indeed refresh some of them with new features - warm white LEDs, new coreless motors and detailed valve gear. It would not be a huge investment. I don't mean Marklin's Mikado - in my opinion, even with all enhancements, this model will hardly compete with AZL's very detailed variant. But for example, they could revive their old 4-6-0 steamer (88036, www.maerklin.de/en/products/details/article/88036), as a suitable updated chassis with new features already exists (81302, www.maerklin.de/en/products/details/article/81302). Greetings, Alex Thanks Alex and Frank Yes, The Marklin Pacific chassis is a jewel! I would hope Marklin reissues the Commodore Vanderbilt NYC Hudson with a Dryfuss 20th Century Limited shroud. Donno why they haven't done that yet?
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Post by zscalehobo on May 18, 2021 13:57:55 GMT -5
Alex: Marklin HAD to have SOMETHING to sell along with their versions of the AZL GP38's (see 88615 & 88616). That's why they dredged up these old molds. ... take the cheapest and less detailed AZL locomotive available for only $100, fit it with their ugly hooks and sell it for as much as 210 Euro - which equals to $256! Not so fast... you forgot a few steps in-between the hooks and selling ... 1. Fit it with their ... hooks 2. Put the locomotive into really nice packaging 3. Add instructions, oiling schedule, a schematic, and access to some spare parts So you can see - box and instructions add over $100 to the price. Everyone still want instructions from AZL? (sarcasm)
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