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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 3:10:39 GMT -5
I wanted to speak again about the "sensitive" subject of sound on layouts. 1) At an exhibition, do You REALLY think that all sounds You add (with a lot of effort) to Your layout can be heard by the visitors, with all the people speaking or even kids shouting ? 2) Now I'll take my layout (still under construction) in my "silent" cellar as an example. - Imagine first the sound of a locomotive (one at a time), with engine, bell and horn (BTW I can't add it, I have no DCC). Add the "train announcement messages" from the Emic-2 in the stations. - And the noise of gravel (un)loading, from and to the hoppers. - There will be banners "125 years ... " in town. And for this celebration there will be a funfair ( "carnival" ? ) installed on a parking area near the station (3 "merry-go-round's", each should of course have it's own music like in reality, fully asynchronous). - And now, in a park at the end of main street (more than 1m from the funfair) my gazebo with the orchestra .... playing what ? "Stars and Stripes" ? - And don't forget the engine sound of my crane, for the house under construction ! A very bad mixture, all sounds overlapping ... even with only a few visitors in my cellar !
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Post by dazed on Feb 25, 2020 13:39:33 GMT -5
All true/valid points. In my opinion, sound has a limited benefit to model railroading for the most part, and that is in locomotives (on-board) during ops, or in limited use during general display running. If you are at a show and can consist into a stationary-mounted sound decoder--that is appropriately amplified into larger speakers--I think that can be fun from the presentation standpoint. But for that scenario the crowd noise also keeps it from becoming the incessant "drone" that drives one crazy.
The rest truly is NOISE, and annoying at any appreciable/typical level after a few minutes. If a system has the ability to apply a *very* conservative smattering of sounds at an uber-subtle level and in a limited time sequence then I could possibly be on board, but otherwise...meh.
I've considered a sound sequence for automated crossing-gates, that only randomly fired off every 7th/10th/20th? time the gates were activated, something along those lines, and one that fades off quickly (<15secs perhaps?) even if a long train is still fouling the circuit. Because it is a very railroad-ey sound that you often hear when railfanning I would make that my one exception aside from locos. I think your station calls might be OK in that respect too...in moderation.
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Post by dazed on Feb 25, 2020 13:49:12 GMT -5
I will add that there are a few concepts I've heard over the years that I find "interesting".
One is the SurroundTraxx product pitched by SoundTraxx. It requires a huge DCC infrastructure including detection and transponding to work, but the theory is cool. Basically it knows the location of your locos, and adjusts sound at stationary speakers around the layout accordingly. (the benefit being you can get truly "full" sound with adequate bass to really create a nice aural presence.) But aside from the aforementioned infrastructure, it also suffers from being very basic and doesn't allow for much customization like adding stationary sounds like station calls and so forth.
Second and more intriguing in my mind as an idea pitched by a modeler in one of the N-scale mags about using smartphones and headphones for localized, operator specific sound. So the idea that many ops sessions are using smartphones or tablets as throttles...so why not use the audio and tie that into everything, and also including dispatcher/yardmaster communications? Of course you can also have the nearby crane doing work and typical outdoor sounds and whatnot although the locomotive noise would typically overpower that in real life. I just think that makes a lot of sense for many layouts, especially if you have regular ops sessions.
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Post by Rob Albritton on Feb 25, 2020 15:00:36 GMT -5
I wanted to speak again about the "sensitive" subject of sound on layouts. 1) At an exhibition, do You REALLY think that all sounds You add (with a lot of effort) to Your layout can be heard by the visitors, with all the people speaking or even kids shouting ? My local group has a couple of Z-Bend Track modules built by an older member. He has built large speakers into his layout, and the crossing flashers are accompanied by exceptionally loud bell sounds. Then trains pass the farm, they trigger a heard of cows going "MOOOOOOOO!!!!!" and when trains pass the circus... well... we get this... ALL ... DAY... LONG So YES - they WILL hear you. But only if you pick sounds that can be played with enough volume and repetition to induce insanity. ... now where did I put my wire clippers?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 15:10:30 GMT -5
There is another detail I didn't mention : for realism speech should be English (it is an US layout) : unfortunately most of my future visitors understand French (of course), some of them German but almost nobody (especially the kids) English. So, it is much less interesting if I must translate all sentences ... Otherwise it makes no difference for them if the speech is really made of train announcements, or a part of a soundtrack from Monty Pythons or Star Wars !
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Post by dazed on Feb 25, 2020 15:12:57 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 15:29:11 GMT -5
And, Rob, sorry, but the sounds only triggered when trains come near of the sources remember me some scenic railways or other attractions at Disneyland or EuroMouse in Rust, Germany, where animations are activated in such a way ; for example when I was last time in Rust (1982 ... ) there was a riverboat and elephants animated, their trunks splashing water when the boat came near (I think this was triggered by IR detector barriers). Sorry but this has a taste of "kitsch". To Doug : what about Morgan Freeman or Bruce Willis ?
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Post by tjdreams on Feb 25, 2020 17:11:31 GMT -5
alberich to answer your 1st question is Yes absolutely yes. the Sounds can be heard and do get the attention of people walking by. I can't even begin to tell you how many time a train passing one of the sensors causing the circus music to play or the cows to start moooooing has cough the attention of someone walking by 30 or 40 foot away. Especially kids suddenly its "I heard a cow! Where's the cows?" and the next thing you know the kid holding the adults hand is pulling the adult over to checkout the display and find out where the cows that were making so much noise are at. only thing is by now the train has passed and the cows are quiet so they spend more time checking out the layout looking for the cows till finally the next train comes and its "OOUU Look they have cows! and the crossing gate lights are flashing and the bell is ringing!" We see this type thing all the time at every show. And I get the same response from Adults who may be walking by when i hit the Horn on one of my sound equipped loco's It may be on the opposite side of the layout 50 feet away and just like the kids they stop and look around to see where that noise came from and as soon as they realize it came from our display they are there up close asking did that horn really come from that tiny little loco? How did you get that much sound out of that little engine?
The bottom line is Sounds and Animation on a display get Noticed way more than a simple train running by.
As for using sensors to activate the sounds when a train passes well isn't that the way crossing Gates/lights/Bells work in the real world? As for the Circus music and Cows mooing being activated by a train passing it gives us a couple minutes of Quiet between trains passing Having them play non stop for 6 to 8 hours at a show would drive us MAD. Using trains to activate sensors also helps keep the sounds from drowning each other out by having one play then stop before the train hits the next sensor playing the next sound . And on our large display we often wind up with one or 2 people trying to run and keep track of where 4 - 5 some times 6 or 7 trains are at on the layout. having the train activate a sensor playing the circus music or have the crossing gate bell sound quickly lets us know hay the train is over there.
David
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Post by dazed on Feb 25, 2020 17:11:53 GMT -5
And, Rob, sorry, but the sounds only triggered when trains come near of the sources remember me some scenic railways or other attractions at Disneyland or EuroMouse in Rust, Germany, where animations are activated in such a way ; for example when I was last time in Rust (1982 ... ) there was a riverboat and elephants animated, their trunks splashing water when the boat came near (I think this was triggered by IR detector barriers). Sorry but this has a taste of "kitsch". To Doug : what about Morgan Freeman or Bruce Willis ? Or Samuel L. Jackson, but you'd have to give the children earplugs.
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Post by cwrr on Feb 25, 2020 18:46:58 GMT -5
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