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Post by bogtudor on Dec 10, 2019 10:02:54 GMT -5
Hi everyone, Has anyone tried to increase the weight of AZL locomotives for better contact / traction power? I was thinking to use some removable tungsten putty in the spaces between the shell and the chassis. Someone did it for a F7 Marklin. www.zscale.org/articles/traction.html#weightBogdan
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Post by markm on Dec 10, 2019 10:44:49 GMT -5
IMO most of the modern (21st century design) locomotives have sufficient traction to scale from the prototypes with AZL adding traction tires to many of there locomotives: (I don't know if this is my image or one from the BAZBoys) Adding weight adding weight won't improve electrical contact as that is dictated primarily by railhead width. Mark
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Post by cwrr on Dec 10, 2019 11:13:07 GMT -5
Holy mackerel, that's a long train!!
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Post by markm on Dec 10, 2019 11:39:40 GMT -5
Holy mackerel, that's a long train!! Having seen the BAZBoys do this about a half dozen times, the limiting issue seems to be the reliability of couplers and not motive power. BTW from what I know, SP would have run an ABBA consist.
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Post by dazed on Dec 10, 2019 13:02:38 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those flat modules? That makes a massive difference compared to even a 1% grade much less the 2-3% or more that sometimes end up on a model railroad. (yet, you'd probably never run a train that long for a typical home layout.)
Having said that...I think aside from a few select situations like switchers/shunters or trying to overcome a crazy grade on a layout it is *probably* a solution without a (significant) problem.
You get a lot more mileage out of an actual tungsten cube or plate, but the tungsten putty is still a decent way to add weight. Be mindful of air flow...packing every little nook and cranny could create heat buildup that can create problems. That might be the best argument for doing nothing...or at least being very conservative with your approach.
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Post by BAZman on Dec 11, 2019 11:51:12 GMT -5
We have our favorites for pulling the long trains and choose locos for a variety of reasons like: apparent traction and electrical (pickup jitters). Some just run and run (like the F3's) and some are finicky (SD45, G38, etc.) The finicky ones can be tweaked to perform better. The traction 'tires' on the AZL products are not flush bands so the wheel's traction surface is smaller than the non-traction tire. Maybe being wider and more flush would help but the 100 car trains are riding on mostly Micro-Trains flex track, which has a noticeably narrower rail head which one would think could be worse. Sure, grades make a difference. But no one is going to run a 100 car train on a 2% grade but some of those modules have 1% grades Look at märklin's locos. Most can barely pull a 5-7 passenger train, especially on a grade. Many have tried to optimize traction. The worst was the belief that Bull Frog Snot would be a cure-all and ended up in disasters. Once that worked was some added eight to the nose of the Mikados. DCC makes some of this better and sometimes worse. Electrical pickup creates havoc as the decoder takes time to reinitialize when the power is re-applied. The Digitrax decoders by default have Momentum so when the decoder starts, it has to 'ramp' up the speed from 0, which magnifies the speed glitches. We set the Momentum to 0 so the decoder resumes the last Speed Step as it detects the packet on the rails. Clean track, no oil/lubricant residuals on the rails, NO overly oiled locos, CLEAN wheels (don't used the metal brush 'cleaners', they can damage the traction tire and do not remove lubricants from the wheels such as plastic residue from MTL wheels) and metal wheels.
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Post by husafreak on Dec 11, 2019 12:20:40 GMT -5
I know we are talking about loco's here but is there a sweet spot for the weight of cars? In my collection of cars many are obviously weighted, like the big ball bearings in my AZL hoppers, some are metal, so weighty, and some (a lot of Marklins) are feather light. Any advice on an actual weight to shoot for?
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Post by dazed on Dec 11, 2019 16:41:14 GMT -5
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Post by BAZman on Dec 12, 2019 10:43:13 GMT -5
Less weight makes longer trains. More weight (in grams) is just asking for trouble. Some trucks we have seen, the axle points are BARELY being held in but, they reliably run. Metal wheels make extremely more reliable tracking. Since virtually all of the rolling stock run reliably, over and over, why mess with success? There is no Z weight standard (IIRC, by the NMRA), just extrapolations from N scale. There are some AZL cars that are 'overweight, like the Autoracks and the early Hoppers but, they still run ok and I've pulled 30-40 cars (all I have) many times.
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Post by husafreak on Dec 12, 2019 11:08:52 GMT -5
Perfect, tray to the rescue here with standards for car weights, thank you!
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Post by husafreak on Dec 12, 2019 11:17:56 GMT -5
Less weight makes longer trains. More weight (in grams) is just asking for trouble. Some trucks we have seen, the axle points are BARELY being held in but, they reliably run. Metal wheels make extremely more reliable tracking. Since virtually all of the rolling stock run reliably, over and over, why mess with success? There is no Z weight standard (IIRC, by the NMRA), just extrapolations from N scale. There are some AZL cars that are 'overweight, like the Autoracks and the early Hoppers but, they still run ok and I've pulled 30-40 cars (all I have) many times. Very good advice for sure. As stated in the linked thread this is to dove the problem of light cars jumping tracks in turnouts and to balance top heavy cars. I will use weight only on the cars that need it. And I agree about the axle points, I converted all of my cars to plastic wheels and they don’t seem like they could handle much weight at all the way they are held in.
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Post by husafreak on Dec 12, 2019 11:30:10 GMT -5
I will look for more info about weighting the nose of AZL Mikados. I got one yesterday and while I am very happy with it I noticed it could pull a longish train but can’t push much at all.
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Post by bogtudor on Dec 13, 2019 17:43:18 GMT -5
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