|
Post by dave on May 2, 2019 17:50:02 GMT -5
Hi Jim,
Here is my opinion. Get yourself a 2' x 3' cork bulletin board from Walmart. Buy a small loop of Rokuhan track using 195mm curves. Get a Rokuhan RC02 controller (awesome little controller and can run on 8 AA batteries or there is an AC adapter available). For locos in your roads, you are going to be limited. There is a GP30 in BN or BNSF. There is also a BNSF SD70M. That is about it. Buy a couple of pieces of AZL rolling stock and a couple of pieces of MTL rolling stock. Then, take some time and play with the trains. Get used to the size, placing them on the track, coupling and uncoupling, etc. You will find that Z scale is much more susceptible to dirty track. You will definitely want equip your rolling stock with metal wheels as it helps keep the track cleaner. Running Z is different running N; I can attest to that. Z is more finicky. The cute factor will hook you and that is why you should really take the time to use and run them for a while before making a large investment in it.
Personally, I am getting out of Z scale. Don't get me wrong; I really enjoyed my time in Z but the availability of things I really want just isn't there. N-scale (at least for me) runs better and is easier to see. I can get things like a Shay and other locos not likely to ever be produced in Z scale.
Carefully look at what is available in your roads. Many things have been made in your roads but are long gone. Rarely does used AZl stuff come up for sale. There is eBay and ztrackresale. Lastly, when shopping, you will see that Z scale is more expensive that N scale.
Not trying to discourage you, just being realistic.
|
|
|
Post by mgatdog on May 2, 2019 20:52:45 GMT -5
Jim If you get into z scale . I found 2 used Frisco’s MTL Loco’s and 1 new one. Bob
|
|
|
Post by altunha on May 2, 2019 22:49:01 GMT -5
Thanks Bob!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 0:14:55 GMT -5
On MTL cars with plastic wheels/axles, You should replace them with metallic versions by Full Throttle (WDW) or Fox Valley (33") ... They run better !
|
|
|
Post by domi on May 13, 2019 16:48:29 GMT -5
Most has been said in the previous posts. I will describe my own vision of Z scale, dealing with my way of using it. -I'm definitly a switching man. Seeing trains just turning and turning around bothers me after 3 minutes or so. For that purpose I'm using : *Snail controller. (Mine is from Passmann - infortunately it looks like these are no more produced but alternative choice exists). Mandatory to allow you to run your locos at a steady scale walking man speed -> 1 or 2 scale mph. *Electrofrog turnouts. One has to forget Marklin's that are insulated frog, beyond having a toylike look from another era. Myself I'm using samples from a former craftsman who doesn't work anymore. But I built 15 or 20 Fast Tracks samples for my future layout, and I have faith in newly released Atlas samples that are exactly what I'm looking for : electrofrog, no plastic roadbed, no lateral toylike mechanism (indeed they are branded to be operated with undertable mechanism). *Magnematic couplers (ie MicroTrains = MTL). In this process I'm swapping AZL couplers on my AZL locos with MTL's, in the same time than fitting them with pilot / snowplow. Matching with magnematic couplers you'll have to insert magnets beneath track (spurs) or electromagnets (main track and sidings). magnets are available at MTL's, electromagnets at Kadee's. -Tight curves are repellent for me. One of the reasons I chose Z scale is my goal of having rather broad curves on a small surface. My current layout takes place on only 90 x 140 cm (~38" x ~55") but curves are minimum 35 cm (14") radius. On my future layout, my retirement project in 7 or 8 years, curves will be a minimum of 50 cm (20") radius. -And true, track must be clean. Every 3 or 4 weeks, depending on frequency of use, I clean track with a small cloth soaked with rubbing alcohol. Furthermore one of my trains is equipped with an Aztectrains track cleaning car (infortunately these are no more available). For all that you have a fair choice of equipment. Locomotives begin to be widely available at MTL's and AZL's, mostly EMD diesels of 1st generation (F-Units, GP7, GP9), 2nd generation (SD45, GP30), 3rd generation (SD40-2) and thereafter (SD70M, SD75i, SD70ACe, GE ES44AC), and AZL produces a fair range of vintage and modern rolling stock. Steamers are also available at AZL's. Expensive brass units (Big Boy, Challenger, AC12 Cab Forward, SP GS3 and 4 4-8-4s), and far cheaper plastic USRA Mikes, all with a great level of detail and fine runners. Modern designed MTL locos (SD40-2, and GP35 and GP9 if they are again produced one of these days) are very fine runners, as well as AZL's. My only caveat with AZL's is their traction tires, which are in my opinion juice insulator as well as dust catchers. Otherwise AZL locos are wonderful engineering and I warmly recommend them. -And finally, true, I concur with this statement, it's far better to swap plastic axles (MTL cars) with steel samples. Less dust, better rolling caracteristics, and less slack action running rather long trains downgrade. Ok, I think I didn't forget anything. With all this Z scale definitly fits with most modelrailroaders' needs. Dom
|
|
|
Post by altunha on Jun 20, 2019 20:12:00 GMT -5
Thanks Dom
Sorry, I’ve been off of the forum for a bit.
I purchased an MTL F7 as well as MTL track.
I’m trying to get used to the difference between N and Z - boy! Z sure is finicky!
I’ve some less than stellar reviews of the MTL F7, but I’m trying to work with it. (I honestly could not see buying an A-B AZL set for such a small layout)
I have some switches, too, and my locomotive hesitates on them.
Reviewing the replies to my original post, it looked like the majority of modelers have gone to AZL equipment and Rokuhan track. But I would hope that there are modelers out there who do own MTL.
Jim
|
|
|
Post by Rob Albritton on Jun 20, 2019 22:10:57 GMT -5
Reviewing the replies to my original post, it looked like the majority of modelers have gone to AZL equipment and Rokuhan track. But I would hope that there are modelers out there who do own MTL. Jim Atlas also makes excellent Z scale track and turnouts.
|
|
|
Post by markm on Jun 21, 2019 0:14:28 GMT -5
Jim,
I guess you can call Z scale finicky, but I've found going from S to HO to N to Z each new down scale was finicky until I got use to the new scale and tighter tolerances You'll get use to it.
I've been running MTL track since about 2010 and the F7s since the early 90s and been satisfied with both. The MTL rails have a rather narrow tread, about 30% narrower than the other manufacturers, so you need to take more care keeping them clean for good electrical contact. The routine I use is an electronics grade alcohol wipe followed by an Aztec track cleaning car (out if production) to keep my track clean.
The F7s are noisy but generally good runners. I find they can need up to 30 minutes of operation before they run smoothly.
Mark
|
|
|
Post by altunha on Jun 21, 2019 5:29:18 GMT -5
Thank you, Mark. I was beginning to rethink my choice of manufacturers.
Also, thanks for the info on cleaning tracks with alcohol. This is a simple and inexpensive solution.
When I first ran the F7, it ran well for a few days. Now it seems to be struggling. The folks at MTL told me that I shouldn’t have to lube it as it is a new loco.
Maybe the track gets dirty quickly? The wheels get dirty? Do the non-metal wheels on the freight cars leave a deposit on the track, causing dirty track?
Newbee questions from a long-time modeler...
|
|
|
Post by markm on Jun 21, 2019 18:53:14 GMT -5
Jim,
I should point out that alcohol can be damaging to rolling stock paint so be careful. If you can find them, the individually packaged wipes end up being the best value. The ones that come in the plastic dispenser (like baby wipes) are cheaper, but dry out in about 3 months so you rarely use them all. I get my wipes at Fry's Electronics, which I believe you have in your area. There are many other ways of cleaning track, but I prefer to avoid methods that can leave particles.
Yes, the plastic wheel sets do slough off a bit and track gets dirty faster than with metal wheels. I generally clean my track before every session and find I have few problems. Household dust can be a problem as can wildfire smoke that we have seen here in California. I like to cover my layout with a white sheet when I'm not using it.
I've found all the AZL and MTL locomotives require no lubrication new out of the box. I tend to re-lubricate when the locos appear sluggish, wheels/gears have gotten particularly dirty or about 100-200 hours of operation. Some of the AZL locomotives use plastic gears that really don't need lubrication. I like using Labelle 108 oil.
There are a number of products and techniques for maintaining track and locos, these are the ones that have worked for me.
Mark
|
|
|
Post by altunha on Jun 22, 2019 10:19:33 GMT -5
Thank you Mark
|
|
|
Post by cjm413 on Jun 22, 2019 10:47:18 GMT -5
Thanks Dom Sorry, I’ve been off of the forum for a bit. I purchased an MTL F7 as well as MTL track. I’m trying to get used to the difference between N and Z - boy! Z sure is finicky! I’ve some less than stellar reviews of the MTL F7, but I’m trying to work with it. (I honestly could not see buying an A-B AZL set for such a small layout) I have some switches, too, and my locomotive hesitates on them. Reviewing the replies to my original post, it looked like the majority of modelers have gone to AZL equipment and Rokuhan track. But I would hope that there are modelers out there who do own MTL. Jim Modelers buy rolling stock based on the prototype that it represents rather than the manufacturer that makes the model. There are cases in HO or N where one has to pick a model of a prototype offered by multiple manufacturers, but this is almost never the case in Z.
|
|
|
Post by cjm413 on Jun 22, 2019 11:03:44 GMT -5
On MTL cars with plastic wheels/axles, You should replace them with metallic versions by Full Throttle (WDW) or Fox Valley (33") ... They run better ! I use Full Throttle Bettendorf trucks on my MTL open hoppers. In addition to the metal wheelsets, they have a much shorter coupling distance, more accurately dimensioned trucks, etc. I don't use magnetic coupling, but even if I did, the only "switching" I need to do is the locomotives from the first hopper in the train or the caboose from the last hopper in the train.
|
|
|
Post by markm on Jun 22, 2019 12:15:42 GMT -5
While there is no doubt that metal wheels improve performance, one can spend a fortune swapping out the MTL wheel sets and even more swapping out trucks. I'm somewhat selective making the change. I find swapping out the wheels on center beams, flat cars and gondolas in that order) lowers the center-of-gravity and improves performance the most. For other cars, I prioritize for cars that I want to run in long trains and cars I like running a lot.
As for close coupling I agree that FT trucks have better close coupling, but what looks stranger than the wider coupling is coupling distance varying between cars.
Mark
|
|
|
Post by cjm413 on Jun 22, 2019 16:32:20 GMT -5
While there is no doubt that metal wheels improve performance, one can spend a fortune swapping out the MTL wheel sets and even more swapping out trucks. I'm somewhat selective making the change. I find swapping out the wheels on center beams, flat cars and gondolas in that order) lowers the center-of-gravity and improves performance the most. For other cars, I prioritize for cars that I want to run in long trains and cars I like running a lot. As for close coupling I agree that FT trucks have better close coupling, but what looks stranger than the wider coupling is coupling distance varying between cars. Mark I run my MTL open hoppers with FT trucks with my FT open hoppers, so it's win-win for me.
|
|