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Post by dazed on Nov 6, 2017 10:44:14 GMT -5
This was posted in the NTS Thread some time ago....did this ever happen? Admittedly I don't check the main AZL website page very often. Either for this project or a future car, I'll throw out my two cents... I would like to see the Trinity 5161 covered hopper (and its successor cubic-foot variations rolled in to allow more schemes) as my first choice. BNSF has thousands of these, and just about every major railroad in existence since 1998 has their share as well. (plus the BNSF "Heritage" schemes) Hard to go wrong with unit-train freight cars from a sales perspective...these cars have done VERY well in the other scales.   Others would be: 52ft6in Thrall gon (corrugated and non, similar to Trainworx N series...tons of roadnames) These very common 52ft6in gons are very much needed in Z.   Generic non-funnel 50ft Tank car. (similar to the classic N-scale MDC-now-Athearn car) Obviously I love the more proto-specific cars like your beautiful corn syrup cars. But we need a straight non-funnel-flow tank car and for a commercially viable project this one represents pretty well.  "Railgon" gons. (like MDC/Athearn have done in N, also good for BN/BNSF and a few others.) The ubiquitous cars have the benefit of two huge players--BN/BNSF and RailGon--plus many other roads with these cars or similar cars.  This is my short list. Looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with next! Doug |
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Post by markm on Nov 6, 2017 22:20:24 GMT -5
If we are going to this, may I suggest the drop-bottom wood-sided hopper with extensions, otherwise known as a sugar beet car:
These cars were run on many major railroads: ATSF, BN, SP, UP, WP (and many short lines: GWR) west of the Mississippi from the Dakotas into Texas from at least as early as the 1920s to today hauling sugar beets for processing. Always run as unit trains, in the sugar beet regions in the Fall, they were as common as coal trains until high fructose corn syrup in the 1980s. www.carrtracks.com/beet-racks.htm
Wood extensions, which could be applied separately, are planks or plywood depending on the era. All were well weathered.
A very common car type nobody talks about.
Mark
Disclaimer: Granddad worked for Great Western Sugar and their railroad subsidiary, my uncle was fireman for locomotives pulling these cars and my cousins still grow sugar beets that are ultimately hauled away for processing in these cars.
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Post by markm on Nov 7, 2017 10:16:49 GMT -5
Some additional thoughts... The standard sugar beet processing started with a steam bath for the beets and the car. So none of these cars ever looked factory fresh:  This could be an opportunity for AZL to get into the weathered car business. Of course one would need loads, lots of loads : modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2014/08/modeling-sugar-beet-loads.htmlI suppose it would be asking too much for the 0-4-0Ts that pulled these cars through the factories: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2272649I think an eight-pack of cars would be appropriate. BTW: these trains also ran through Niles in the 1950s hauling beets from the dwindling number of farms along the Nimitz Freeway corridor. SO, does this qualify as customer participation? If not, I can run down to the CSRM library and get a set of builders diagrams. They have a new librarian and "he don't know me very well" yet. Mark |
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Post by dazed on Nov 7, 2017 12:01:06 GMT -5
This could be an opportunity for AZL to get into the weathered car business. Now you have my attention! I started a diatribe on weathered cars, but decided not to hijack my own thread so I'm gonna start a new one. I love the beet cars. Thanks for sharing the info and photos. They're not my era or locale but I'd totally support their development just because they're such a neat car and I know they would be popular. |
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Post by gerd on Nov 7, 2017 20:27:20 GMT -5
If we are going to this, may I suggest the drop-bottom wood-sided hopper with extensions, otherwise known as a sugar beet car:
These cars were run on many major railroads: ATSF, BN, SP, UP, WP (and many short lines: GWR) west of the Mississippi from the Dakotas into Texas from at least as early as the 1920s to today hauling sugar beets for processing. Always run as unit trains, in the sugar beet regions in the Fall, they were as common as coal trains until high fructose corn syrup in the 1980s. www.carrtracks.com/beet-racks.htm
Wood extensions, which could be applied separately, are planks or plywood depending on the era. All were well weathered.
A very common car type nobody talks about.
Mark
Disclaimer: Granddad worked for Great Western Sugar and their railroad subsidiary, my uncle was fireman for locomotives pulling these cars and my cousins still grow sugar beets that are ultimately hauled away for processing in these cars.
I made this car years ago, of course in metal, limited interest. Haven't done the extensions, but that's an easy scratchbuild. But hey, AZL has taken nearly all my car designs as "inspiration", so why not this one, too. 
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Post by markm on Nov 7, 2017 21:17:24 GMT -5
But hey, AZL has taken nearly all my car designs as "inspiration", so why not this one, too. [/p]
[/quote] An interesting observation. The only reason I had all that data available is that I'm considering the beet car as a "snow day" project, along with a UP dome diner and an SP full length dome. In recent years AZL has or will produce many of my other "snow day" projects. Who knows (besides Hans and Rob A). I always figured that the interest would be too limited. But then again MTL did an N scale version. Mark |
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ZFRANK
Fireman
If you can't get it.....build it yourself....
Posts: 92
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Post by ZFRANK on Nov 23, 2017 15:23:27 GMT -5
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Post by burlingtonroute on Feb 21, 2018 19:12:06 GMT -5
Beet Car.Well actually the regular gondola. In the 20s up until the 50s, a lot of coal was transported by gondolas, and not just the hoppers. Lot of potential in these. I have a few from Gerd (THANKS GERD!) and they are nice, but I cant see myself trying to make a run of 20plus or more that I would need. USRA design, they were used in the same era and as almost as long as them too. Some WAY past when they should have for work trains hauling gravel for whatever railroad's use only. Make the gondolas, and the extensions should be an add on. This way everyone gets what they want, and you get more use out of the basic design. When you are thinking up new cars, for the transition time period from steam to early diesel, you can never go wrong using the USRA basic designs that were used by almost all the railroads. Lots of pictures on line. And someone might have a book or two if they ask  |
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Post by burlingtonroute on Feb 22, 2018 12:32:51 GMT -5
Another car that is lacking, if you look at enough old pictures and train films, are the Trailer On Train Cars I know when the started a lot of RRs made their own stuff and all different. Illinois Central had a lot of cool "Piggy Back" trailers.
Burlington had a cool trucking service going. 40s and 50s trailers with those rounded fronts would look pretty cool on a flatcar. For a while everyone in Z was going container happy, and I just could not get excited about what I considered to be an overgrown connex box.
But think of all the cool things you could do with a truck trailer. All the different Railroad/Trucking/Private businesses. Plus for those who like all the Micky Mouse, Nascar, Football, Santa Claus type kitsch, make some trailers for them too. And you can use the same flatcar.
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Post by gerd on Feb 22, 2018 17:50:24 GMT -5
Another car that is lacking, if you look at enough old pictures and train films, are the Trailer On Train Cars I know when the started a lot of RRs made their own stuff and all different. Illinois Central had a lot of cool "Piggy Back" trailers. Burlington had a cool trucking service going. 40s and 50s trailers with those rounded fronts would look pretty cool on a flatcar. For a while everyone in Z was going container happy, and I just could not get excited about what I considered to be an overgrown connex box. But think of all the cool things you could do with a truck trailer. All the different Railroad/Trucking/Private businesses. Plus for those who like all the Micky Mouse, Nascar, Football, Santa Claus type kitsch, make some trailers for them too. And you can use the same flatcar. So you mean basically a 50'flatcar with 2x single axle round-front trailers? I'm sure some years ago somebody made those trailers, cast or 3D printed. Maybe it was Walter or Stony? |
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Post by burlingtonroute on Feb 23, 2018 0:31:37 GMT -5
Hi Gerd.
3D "printing" is great for a lot of stuff, but I am still not happy with the surfaces and the whole painting and decal thing. Resin is a bit better but still molded plastic would be nicer. Trailer train flatcars that AZL has are nice, but just over a tad over the line of the era I was thinking of.
Most of the big railroads made their own flatcars and modified them for the first generation Trailer On Trains Cars.
Even if I do not get my era, it would be nice to see some trailers, as AZL has all those next generation flatcars and even the hitch thingy.
For the toy train fans, I seen a picture of a prototype (I want to say Chicago North Western RR) trailer with HAPPY HOLIDAYS in big letter on it, so people could get their Christmas Train groove on and STILL be prototypical
I do have a bunch of German trailers from Kibri (not all the old trailers were rounded) I bet I could modify them to look more "American".
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Post by markm on Feb 23, 2018 0:58:00 GMT -5
Most of the big railroads made their own flatcars and modified them for the first generation Trailer On Trains Cars. ...and the second generation. I too am interested in piggyback operations. I did a bit of research awhile back and the problem is that there was a lot of experimentation building and modifying flat cars, tie down methods and even trailer sizes. It's hard to come up with a design that is reasonable for more than 1-2 roads. As for SP (my primary interest) look at this promo video: and notice all the different flat car and trailer shapes and size back in 1954. Also for AZL notice the special piggy back caboose (hint, hint)  Mark |
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Post by gerd on Feb 23, 2018 5:04:54 GMT -5
Great video! Have to think about the trailers. The flatcars look interesting. Have to do some research...
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Post by burlingtonroute on Feb 23, 2018 14:46:01 GMT -5
TTX had some cool 85 foot flatcars, that were the generation just before the 89 footers. If I ever won the lottery, I would find someone who could design and cast brass flatcars, Have a laser cut wood or thin laser board stuff) deck, and get someone that could paint and do decals, even white ones.
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Post by burlingtonroute on Feb 28, 2018 0:12:56 GMT -5
Since I am begging again (hey I DID get my CB&Q outside braced boxcars!!!!) I am going to make another pitch for a car type. Those 30 foot shorty "beercan" type tank cars. Here are my arguments for.
1) Nostalgia. Lots of people who started years ago wound up with one with their N or HO or bigger train sets.
2) "Cuteness" or "Coolness" factor. Got to admit they are both.
3) small radius/suitcase modelers. They would go around those curves a lot better than those LPG tank cars (which are pretty cool too. Also fit in a siding of some small factory.
4) Smaller is Bigger. Small cars, more and cars on the train, bigger trains.
5)Generic factor. You don't have to mark these for any particular RR, or even a real company. Might be a turnoff to some but I think that most people anymore do not care.
6)Price? Well I don't think you would pick these up for 4 bucks like the old HO and N ones, and I don't know how much that material is factored in.
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