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Post by peter on Dec 16, 2020 3:12:31 GMT -5
Will the DZ123Z0 decoder work with the latest AZL GP38-2's that were released earlier this spring?
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Post by modelwarships on Dec 17, 2020 12:32:32 GMT -5
Will the DZ123Z0 decoder work with the latest AZL GP38-2's that were released earlier this spring? Yes. I found the install in the new GP38's is super simple now. The casting is cleaner and you can look under the installed Decoder and visually verify that the tabs are making contact with the motor tabs. |
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Post by zscaleken on May 9, 2022 15:02:25 GMT -5
I was wondering if there is any information on how to install a DZ123Z0 decoder into a Alco PA-1? AZL describes it as DCC ready, but the circuit board mount is different than what I'm used to from AZL as the PCB is bolted to the chassis. I assume the conversion process begins with removing the PCB, but I'd rather not start disassembling the locomotive until I have some idea of what I'm dealing with. I've found zero information about this online, so I figure this would be a good place to ask.
Thanks in advance
Ken
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Post by markm on May 9, 2022 18:03:18 GMT -5
Ken,
I haven't had time to look into DCCing the PAs yet, but from what I've read and from posted images, it looks like the DZ123Z0 is not appropriate and you will probably need to wire in something like the DZ123 or DZ126
I have to commend you for not jumping in taking the unit apart. Z locomotives can come apart far easier than they go back together.
My thoughts on how to DCC: cut the PCB traces between the resistor and diode and again between the pickups and motor. If there are any other ideas, I like to read them.
Mark
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Post by zscaleken on May 9, 2022 22:43:46 GMT -5
Ken, I haven't had time to look into DCCing the PAs yet, but from what I've read and from posted images, it looks like the DZ123Z0 is not appropriate and you will probably need to wire in something like the DZ123 or DZ126 I have to commend you for not jumping in taking the unit apart. Z locomotives can come apart far easier than they go back together. My thoughts on how to DCC: cut the PCB traces between the resistor and diode and again between the pickups and motor. If there are any other ideas, I like to read them. Mark I'm very surprised that it's not a straight board-for-board conversion. There's more than enough space to put a board mount. Plus, that's going to make having a headlight a pain. Well, it's probably going to be easier than the F59PHI, at least I hope.
It did take me some willpower not to take off the board just to "see what's under there". But, this isn't my first z-scale rodeo.
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Post by markm on May 10, 2022 2:44:05 GMT -5
I'm not surprised. While I think the drop-inboard design is a good idea that needs some tweaking, it really works the best for locomotives around 50-60 feet (prototype). The question really is whether the decoder manufacturers are willing to design a new board. On further thought, skip connecting to the OEM LEDs in favor of wired LEDs. It will allow getting the light closer to the nose and SP used multiple headlights that I'd like to model.
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Post by zscaleken on May 10, 2022 14:42:23 GMT -5
Take a look inside the PA-1 and tell me there's no room for a DZ123Z0. To me, it looks like it would fit perfectly except for a decision by AZL to make it so it can't. I have no idea why, perhaps there's some issue between AZL and Digitrax that I'm not aware of. I understand that with Z-scale, there's going to be some locomotives that won't accept that decoder (such as the RS-2/3), but for a new model to come out in 2021 as "DCC ready" that could accept that decoder and can't just baffles me. Either "DCC ready" is a meaningless term that I should ignore, or AZL is being deliberately deceptive with it. Either way, I guess at some point I'm going to have to remove the DC board and see how I can solder something in while accepting that headlights are a luxury unavailable to PA-1s running on digital layouts. It's not like I'm ever going to get an answer from customer support on this.
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Post by ptitrainrouge on May 11, 2022 0:46:18 GMT -5
This problem is something I can not understand . if there is room inside, why AZL do not design the loco to accept directly the digitrax decoder ?
AZL is loosing customers doing that.
I am a DCC guy, but with very poor skill and knowledge to solder on a so tiny thing. the Digitrax system is the top for me. (as the Z model)
if it is not possible to install it , I will not buy the loco. I am doing Z scale because there is the plug and play system.
I hope that the future SD40/2 will accept the Digitrax decoder
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Post by tjdreams on May 11, 2022 18:27:38 GMT -5
I really don't think AZL would have changed the design with out good reason. You guys are up set because its inconvenient to solder in a decoder or you don't have the skills to solder in a decoder. either way you can still run your loco on DC. But what about the multitude of other Z scale enthusiast who do not have the skills to remove the shell and or reseat a loose light board. For them something as simple as a loose board equals a broke loco that they can't run or fix themselves Maybe AZL was just looking out for those who are not as skilled as you by switching to a board that is attached with screws so it will not come loose in shipping. There are hundreds of other possible reasons why AZL changed the board. OH and if your looking for answers from Customer Support your posting in the wrong place. Try reading the sticky post titled This is NOT the place for AZL Customer Support Questions |
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Post by zscaleken on May 12, 2022 13:39:43 GMT -5
I did send a message to customer support and didn't hear back, which is why I tried to get an answer here. AZL doesn't owe me an explanation as to why they didn't go with a drop in board, although I would have appreciated an explanation as to how one would go about converting to DCC without one. Right now, I'm worried that the wires poking up through the DC board, connecting it to the motor, are under tension and that I'll never get them connected again if I remove the board. This might be a completely unfounded worry, but there's no way for me know as there are no technical details about the locomotive online.
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Post by markm on May 13, 2022 11:42:55 GMT -5
My DCC experience doesn’t go beyond Z scale, but I do look at other scales and it’s seems that “drop-in decoder” and “DCC ready” are a bit vague. The later seems to mean the motor is isolated from the chassis and the former that the board has the same for factor as the board coming out. Just this morning I received this from MR: t1.mail.trains.com/r/?id=h17a8fa13,3495e07,35ad0f0&e=dXRtX3NvdXJjZT1hY3MmdXRtX21lZGl1bT1lbWFpbCZ1dG1fZW1haWw9bW1hcmtoYW0lNDBidWNraG9ybnNvZnR3YXJlLmNvbSZ1dG1fY2FtcGFpZ249TmV3czBfVERDXzIyMDUxM18wMDAwMDBfTVJWVmVyc2lvbiZlaWQ9bW1hcmtoYW0lNDBidWNraG9ybnNvZnR3YXJlLmNvbQ&s=AAG2_CHyilctsImljDRqapmHNVs61EfwFMV5GSXNRsQ For installing a drop-in board in an Atlas N scale locomotive of very similar design to the AZL chassis. I’m not sure it everyone can view this, so to summarize: Remove the trucks, shell,fuel tank, power pickups. Split the frame, remove lighting board, remove drive train and motor. Isolate the motor and position the power leads. Drop-in new board. Reassemble and solder motor to board. I’ve just pulled the shell on the PA and it looks like my previous thoughts still hold. Given a bit of time someone will have a solution. |
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Post by zscaleken on May 13, 2022 14:01:55 GMT -5
I can't view the image (I'm assuming it's an image) you posted, but if I have to disassemble the entire locomotive, isolate the motor, and then solder in the board, then it's neither a "drop-in" board nor a "DCC ready" locomotive. I looked at a few N scale drop in decoder instruction booklets on the Digitrax site, one of which is for a PA-1 and none of them require anywhere near that level of work. At most you're required to move some metal clips around or loosen the chassis screws. Which decoder are you talking about? If you've removed the shell on the PA-1, then you've noticed that the board in there is the exact same width as the Digitrax AZL drop in, so it will fit right into the same space. If I place the decoder so the motor output is over the motor contacts and solder the contact pads to the chassis, then it should work. I'd probably have to remove the motor tabs from the decoder and drill a hole for the contact wires, but that's doable. Right now, I'd settle for reassurances that the motor contact wires won't pop out of place when I remove the board so I can put in a universal decoder if my drop-in plan fails. I'll have to sacrifice the headlight, but at least it'll be DCC.
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Post by ptitrainrouge on May 13, 2022 14:03:53 GMT -5
my experience with modern european (fleischmann, minitrix, piko, arnold,hobbytrain,...) N scale is: decoders are fitted with several pins (8 , 12,..) depends on decoders and DC Board has a receiver with the same number of receivers put it in place, et voila . a type of decoder is deticated to a certain number of locos. or you can easily find models with decoder pre installed so easy  |
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Post by tjdreams on May 13, 2022 18:08:23 GMT -5
I Just put decoders in my PA1 PB1 set. Its easy took me about 15 minutes each. You have to do a little soldering and cut one trace I used a D&H PD05A it fits nicely behind the rear board mount. A ESU LokPilot 5 Micro DCC will also fit in the same spot PB1 Remove the shell Unscrew the board Have 3 people and 2 large magnets standing by to catch the springs, brushes, gears, armature, motor housing, wheels, axles, washers, ladders, smoke stack, and Santa Claus Hat that will go flying woops Just kidding I was thinking of the wrong model   Nothing will go flying just make sure you put all 4 screws in a safe place so you don't loose them Lift the board off, flip it over and remove the 2 large green resistors. Solder the orange and gray motor wires to where the resistor was attached in the middle of the board Solder the red and black wires to where the resistor was attached at the end of the board Put board back in place and reinstall the screws Put the shell back on Program your decoder to your desired Number and have fun running it  For the PA1 Unsolder and remove D1 and C1 Cut the trace Next to the R1 resister Solder the Blue wire to the pad where D1 was and the white wire to the pad where D2 would be. Wire the rest the same as the PB1  |
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Post by zscaleken on May 13, 2022 22:36:43 GMT -5
Thanks! I just finished thanking you for this advice on the trainboard forum. I may go to my grave not understanding why they did it this way, but as long as I can convert it without having to disassemble the whole locomotive, I'm happy.
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