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Post by boxcarwilly on Jul 19, 2017 10:33:07 GMT -5
I am not sure if this subject has been covered previously so I'm going to throw it out for discussion in an attempt to perhaps gain some insight about Marklin turnout functionality.
I have just completed my yard using mostly Marklin remote turnouts. After doing a great deal of testing with my MTL and AZL engines, I'm having a lot of problems with stalling and derailing. There are a few turnouts that are specifically troublesome and now that they are all installed and hooked up, I really don't want to have to rip them out again. I've cleaned these repeatedly as recommended in a few ariticles, and I'm still having problems. I understand that Marklin turnouts are supposed to float, but shouldn't there be some kind of support under them to carry the weight of the engines as they pass over? As they are now, they sag or bend to one side causing a stall. I've tried several methods to support these turnouts, including cork, foam matts, and popsicle sticks, but nothing seem to work satisfactorily. My yard is a ladder type with in and out tracks running on angles at each end and the switches are all connected back to back. I need to have smooth operation in both directions. Here is another problem I'm having. I have MTL track connected to the divergent part of the Marklin turnouts which makes them higher then it would be with Marklin track. This presents it's own problems in as far as connectivity is concerned and transfer of power. This yard is one of two focal points of my entire layout and it has to work flawlessly. It's hard enough to keep the track clean and I have a lot of work still to do in setting up the yard so I don't need problems with these turnouts and I have quite a chunk of change invested in them. I've purchased 14 used Marklin turnouts from various sources and on their own, they work adequately, but in this configuration, I'm having difficulties. So, what do I use for support under the turnouts, how do I keep them from moving out of alignment since they are not supposed to be fastened down, and how do I improve power transfer from the turnouts to the MTL track? Oh, one more thing. I also have MTL turnouts in this yard at out of the way locations and I'm having problems with some of them re, power from the through to the divergent.
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Post by smr on Jul 19, 2017 10:53:17 GMT -5
Hi Willy, We are using the Maerklin turnouts all the time. However, with a modification - for optical and reliability reasons we remove the motor that Maerklin usually attaches to the turn out. We use standard railroad motors applied under the layout. With this, beside other things, you stabilize the switch from below. Usually Maerklin is using a whitish plastic piece to do so. This is not very reliable. If you don't use a variation of the techniques I described above, you should try to replace this plastic piece by something more durable. Best, Sven Interesting link for any kind of professional switch in Z; www.weichen-walter.deThe best-in-class Z scale switches you will find here; www.weichenlaterne.de/pageID_1673093.html
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Post by boxcarwilly on Jul 19, 2017 11:31:52 GMT -5
Greg:
I read an article on Google put out by I believe Zscalehobo about Marklin turnouts and in that article it says that these turnouts are supposed to float which is why there are no nail holes in the ties. Now to me, that means nothing under them to support the turnout which I find contradictory. In as far as support, when I take pieces of MTL track and connect them to both ends of the turnout, and put them on a level surface, the turnout is as you say, floating in the air, being raised by the built in roadbed on the MTL track. If I put cork roadbed under the turnout, it raises the MTL track higher still so there would be a slope at both ends. It's the same thing with everything else I try except the popsicle sticks which are slightly smaller in height then the MTL roadbed which still leaves a gap between the stick and the turnout. I haven't yet been able to find anything that would support these turnouts, and keep them even with the MTL track. I've even tried pieces of cardboard and plastic but still doesn't give me the results I'm looking for. I guess it's the best method of stability. As for the MTL turnouts, many modellers don't like them because of the inherent problem of power transfer across the frog which I've read is a design flaw. OK on the through, not so much on the divergent. I have a combination of new and used MTL turnouts and the new one's give me as much trouble as the used. Some work, some don't. Here's something else I just remembered. I notice that there is a minute difference in height between the Marklin rails and MTL. Joining them together, regardless of which rail joiners you use this difference can affect the performance of engines and cars sometimes. I wonder if this could cause problems with power transfer as well.
Sven:
I've never used under table switch machines simply because of the practicality issue. On my layout, because of the materials used in construction, these devices would not work. Besides my turnouts are already installed and hooked up. In the picture you provided, it looks as if you are using Marklin track on cork roadbed exclusively. I suspect that if that was what I was doing, I might not have these problems as everything would be even. Sadly such is not the case. The only Marklin track I have anywhere on my layout is the turnouts. Everything else is MTL.
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Post by smr on Jul 19, 2017 16:14:45 GMT -5
Sven, can you elaborate? when you say stabilize, I'm thinking you mean something connected to the switch, and you say from below. So, do you have the turnout lying on the roadbed, but not glued or affixed to it? Looking for more details please. Greg Sure, Greg, The piece in the blue is just fixed by the plastic piece I mentioned (first arrow from the left) and - hopefully - at the core of the switch (second arrow). The rest of the piece is "free floating". Compare it with a professional switch below (Koenig) and you see the difference in concept. Especially the spot of the second arrow is very sensitive and often the reason for derailments if not very properly fixed. Does that help? Best, Sven Zoom in here please:
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Post by BAZman on Jul 20, 2017 0:08:29 GMT -5
Willy, the Märklin turnouts were designed in 1968. And . . . they are DCC friendly (off topic ) They are an amazing design. You can run through the points (from the exit rails, through the frog and then through points, meaning the reverse direction). However, the won't reliable do this with plastic wheels. The frog has *ingenious* electrical transfer, using those floating springy strips. The ends closer to the 'X' should move freely up and down (lightly press down and it should freely move back up). Many don't due to dust, cleaning debris and sometimes liquid that dries all that (but can also be cleaned out with the right fluid). Layouts with these turnouts by the 100,000 out there. And they run all day. Many, many layouts are enclosed so they have to run reliably. Normally, we don't glue or nail down the turnouts, but this is more so they can be easily be replaced. As long as the turnouts are 'laying' on a surface, they really shouldn't move down, so nothing should derail from shifting, leaning or . . Since you are pairing them with roadbed track (MTL or Rokuhan), you will need to use the correct amount of material under the Märklin turnouts. And it should be 'solid', firm stuff, like cork, wood or plastic, not cardboard that will compress but more that you can never have 'flat' cardboard. Make sure that the connecting tracks are on the same plane (all 'flat', in-line. No up and/or down transitions at the joiners. There is no power routing with the Märklin turnouts, there is power everywhere.
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Post by smr on Jul 20, 2017 6:26:33 GMT -5
So you replace what we call the throwbar, that connects the 2 point rails and connects to the switch motor? at the core seems to refer to where the point rails pivot (and are split in 2 pieces) Do you have a picture of a modified marklin switch? Thanks, Greg Hi Greg, Correct! If you flip through the "Niles Junction" or "Chesapeake Bay" threads, you will find plenty pictures since all switches are modified this way. Two examples I attach here. Best, Sven
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Post by boxcarwilly on Jul 20, 2017 9:33:13 GMT -5
Greg:
You are most likely correct in that my interpretation of "floating" is wrong. Yes I have all my Marklin Turnouts supported with thin foam matts but again they are too high to correctly mate with the MTL track. Thus my quest to find the right roadbed material goes on. I did try cardboard but I agree that it will compress over time. I was thinking of using plastic if I can find something in the right thickness, but I'd have to paint it roadbed grey first. Cork roadbed that one can buy off the shelf, is too thick. It's find if you are using track with no roadbed at all, but that's not the case here. It makes sense to support these turnouts but doing it right is the challenge.
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Post by dave on Jul 20, 2017 9:36:17 GMT -5
Have you tried that foamboard that you can get at Walmart or craft stores? I think it comes in different thicknesses and I can't imagine enough pressure would be applied to compress it.
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Post by markm on Jul 20, 2017 10:55:23 GMT -5
Willy,
For roadbed under the turnouts you want to look for a material that is 2mm (80mils) thick. I'm using a sheet of cork I bought at a crafts store. It's closer to 0.1" but it seems to work for me.
Mark
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Post by boxcarwilly on Jul 21, 2017 11:08:45 GMT -5
I'm investigating all avenues to solve this problem. I do not have a fully equipped workshop with which to do many of the things suggested by others. Wish I did. That being said, I use whatever I can find in and around the house or off the shelf. I'm heading to a craft store today to see if I can get the desired thickness of a material for roadbed. The foam matts that I purchased at my local train store, are just two thick and I got the thinnest they had. Thanks Mark and others.
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Post by neverland on Jul 21, 2017 11:29:50 GMT -5
I'm investigating all avenues to solve this problem. I do not have a fully equipped workshop with which to do many of the things suggested by others. Wish I did. That being said, I use whatever I can find in and around the house or off the shelf. I'm heading to a craft store today to see if I can get the desired thickness of a material for roadbed. The foam matts that I purchased at my local train store, are just two thick and I got the thinnest they had. Thanks Mark and others. If no luck, tell me what thickness you need and I'll look thru my cork supply. Are they straight or curved turnouts? I have a set of the latter.
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Post by neverland on Jul 21, 2017 11:43:53 GMT -5
Sven, I have a roll of fine grain cork 12" X 24" X 1/8" thick you are welcome to have. It's harder than the Itty Bitty Lines cork roadbed but may give you what you need. Deb
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Post by boxcarwilly on Jul 22, 2017 9:53:54 GMT -5
Well I managed to find some material that will be just perfect for my needs and I didn't even have to leave the house. I was rummaging around in my construction supplies and a came across some very thin pieces of wood that came as supports for my easy chair when I bought it. I cut a piece off one of these slats and put it beside a Micro Train track and the wood is similar in height. So I slipped it under one of my Marklin turnouts and it supports the turnout to the point where there is no noticeable sag or dip in it when an engine passes over it. So this means that the MTL tracks can lay flat on the base, instead of being slopped at both ends from the support under the turnout. All I need to do now is take one of these turnouts and trace a pattern on the wood and go from there. The wood is thin enough that it can be cut with ordinary dress making sheers. It's almost like balsa wood but thicker and stronger. BTW, does anyone have a spare Marklin left hand remote turnout they can part with? I need two asap.
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