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Post by boxcarwilly on May 1, 2017 11:14:53 GMT -5
Moderators note: At the request of MTL this thread is now locked. For the benefit of transparency, it is still available to read.
MTL has stated for the record that they have no intention of exiting the Z scale market, and we at AZL welcome this statement as we firmly believe that competition is good for our scale and our business.
The original message is as follows:
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I heard a nasty rumor from a friend of mine in Oregon that MTL is winding down it's production of Z scale engines and cars. As I understand it, they have decided to shelve Z scale and concentrate entirely on N scale production. While I find this most unfortunate, it's not at all surprising if true. The new ownership of MTL has not been interested in doing much of anything to boost MTL's market share in Z scale and with the current staff loath to bring forth any new products, they are shooting themselves in the foot. It seems that the manufacturers of Z scale are growing less and less all the time and not just in cars and engines, but in accessories and detail parts as well. How many more are going to throw in the towel?
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Post by dazed on May 1, 2017 14:45:50 GMT -5
(a) I'll believe it when I see it (b) Seems all anyone does is complain about MTL anyway, so is it a surprise? Do you care?
I do, but MTL makes being their customer pretty difficult most of the time. (this, coming from a decades long stint in N and now Z) Stuff like the "grab bag" sets just don't seem productive for anyone. They seem to have an aversion to anything that actually sells well, sitting on popular tooling and popular schemes for years at a time in some cases.
The "China Syndrome" (plant failures/takeovers/etc) hurt just about every manufacturer and the overall hobby of model railroading pretty severely. And yeah, one of the few things MTL farmed out overseas was Z locos. I'm sure that took the wind out of their sails a bit.
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Post by cwrr on May 1, 2017 15:37:07 GMT -5
Someone missed April Fool's by a month......
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Post by Rob Albritton on May 1, 2017 16:54:07 GMT -5
Ahem!
Locomotive Projects Released: AZL: 14 MTL: 4
Freight Cars styles: AZL: 24 MTL: 27 (Although really 19 when you consider that many are side changes to tooling)
Passenger Car styles: AZL: 17 MTL: 5
'nuff said.
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Post by dave on May 1, 2017 18:12:20 GMT -5
I care if they decide to quit Z-scale because they offer variety in our already limited world of Z-scale. I have about 15 of their cars because no one else made them (40' and 50' box cars). Even though they are not as detailed as AZL cars, their street price is about half, on average (that is NOT knocking AZL at all). Plus, I really like some of the weathered and graffiti cars.
If they have to make all of the fantasy cars to keep the doors open, I am perfectly fine with that. No one forces us to buy those cars. Every company has business practices that some of us question.
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Post by zoinks007 on May 1, 2017 18:51:01 GMT -5
Couplers. I guess there is a good argument to be made that Kadee (MTL) couplers have issues, but the concept is good. I'd been using Kadee couplers since I was a kid, so I'm used to them. If MTL stops Z scale work, that'll be a loss if only for the couplers. I also model oil, and MTL has petroleum tank cars. The AZL cars are food service...different. So it was the available variety that I liked and would miss. Same for the boxcars...those 40' cars are perfect for the era I like (40's/50's/early 60's, end of steam, beginning of diesel). The newer cars just don't fit that era. Interestingly, many AZL diesel locos fit that era (GP's, SD-45, E8/9...). If they do stop working Z, there will be a huge business opportunity for even more freight offerings. Just sayin'... Now, having said this, I am very disappointed in the F7 A/B units MTL put out. Since they don't offer much variety there, I'm guessing that if they are taking down their Z offerings, it's because they weren't competing well with AZL in locomotives. Not even close. There is plenty of room for both manufacturers. I buy far, far more AZL than MTL, but still nice MTL is there. Will be a sad thing, I think. Hoping it's not so, but wouldn't be surprised if it is.
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Post by BAZman on May 1, 2017 20:10:14 GMT -5
whether you 5 don't buy them or not, won't dent their bottom line. Folks, Z is NOT a huge market, not even CLOSE to N or HO. With $10,000-$20,000 in tooling, you need to sell more.They choose to be all American (some like that, some don't) But AZL has been hurt too with some overruns (and underruns) but every business is financed differently too. MTL does not have new owners (they been around for quite some time. Yes, they seem to have found some good traction in weathered cars (I like). A few new cars here and there is fine by me. If they want to make them, so be it. You don't like them, don't by them. You do it here to, every month, bitching and moaning where is it, why this one, this ones wrong.
I have PLENTY to run and sometimes don't buy something I do like or should, as I feel it may just not be run (enough).
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Post by boxcarwilly on May 1, 2017 20:22:09 GMT -5
Someone missed April Fool's by a month...... Like I said BUB, it was only a rumor, and my friend knows people at MTL so something must be afoot. But this month's offering from MTL is far less substantial then in previous months so one can draw their own conclusions. You have to remember one very important thing, the attitude of current management is not one of enthusiasm and hasn't been for quite some time. That's a fact. So again, draw your own conclusion. As for couplers, it matters little if they are Kadee or anybody else's, the fact remains, they are too weak to hold trains of more then 15 cars together on grades of 3% or less. That's been my experience. Yes it's only a rumor, but if it's coming from MTL people, then perhaps there is some truth behind it. I guess we will know soon enough.
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Post by dave on May 1, 2017 20:41:41 GMT -5
This month's MTL offering is what it is every month, for the most part. About 4 cars (this month 3 cars), a set and/or an F7 repaint. I looked back a year and that is about what it always is. When the number of cars declines over a period of time, I will wonder.
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Post by dazed on May 1, 2017 22:48:43 GMT -5
And their new art guy is a Z-Scaler.
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Post by Hans Riddervold (AZL) on May 2, 2017 0:01:11 GMT -5
Personally I hope MTL will stay around in Z. It is good for the scale and everything that is good for the scale is good for us at AZL. If they donĀ“t, we will be sure to fill any vacant freight car gaps.
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Post by tjdreams on May 2, 2017 0:47:30 GMT -5
HE Said She Said What is this High School?
I don't know about you but if this is true i don't want to be putting money down on a MTL Pre order for a item that may never get produced, but at the same time I don't want to miss out on a item because of some stupid roomer
SO I'm calling you out Boxcarwilly Since you claim to have the connections, i'm electing you to get to the bottom of this and find out if MTL is really "winding down it's production of Z scale engines and cars" or if its just a roomer. You started this roomer/post now finish it.
We want to know the Truth !!!!! The Facts and who or where they came from!!!
Who is this Friend from Oregon? and who dose this "friend" know at MTL??? Lets have some Names!!! I'm sure MTL would like to know who this person is as well.
After all If the "roomer" is true we will need to thank them and you for the heads up. If its not we will all know who to just ignore from now on.
David
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Post by Greg Elmassian on May 2, 2017 1:30:53 GMT -5
+1
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Post by ztrack on May 2, 2017 6:45:57 GMT -5
I agree with Hans. We need MTL. I have heard actually an opposite rumor. MTL does have a new product in the pipeline. From what has been indicated, I would expect to see a new locomotive that likely will fit on their F7 chassis. I don't have any concrete information, just bit and pieces here. But I would say it is a sound bet that this will happen.
I have been very impressed with MTL's weathered cars. Some of these are incredible, especially those based off of real prototypes. Now this is one area I wish I could nudge Hans and Rob A a little and try offering some weathered cars.
Rob
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Post by boxcarwilly on May 2, 2017 10:23:52 GMT -5
1. I don't give out names of friends and acquaintances to people I don't know. 2. I'm trying to get as much info as possible but since I don't live there and can only reach my friend by email, this takes time. 3. Who his sources are is no one's concern but his and I will not invade his privacy or theirs by asking. 4. I would think that MTL would not pull the plug until they complete any pre-orders, if in fact they do that. 5. If in fact this is a rumor started by some disgruntled employees at MTL, then it's business as usual. I'm only passing on what I've heard. 6. Why don't you investigate it yourself Dave? Contact MTL and try to get answers from them. I wonder if they are planning to discontinue Z will they be up front about it or will they stonewall anyone who asks. I don't know, Do you? 7. If I do find out anything, I will certainly pass the info along to anyone who cares.
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