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Post by boxcarwilly on Apr 2, 2017 9:32:59 GMT -5
This month's release of product from AZL is another disappointment for me. I wait and wait and wait for something to be produced in a specific model only to have it pulled from production to run something else. Then when production resumes and what I am waiting for I'm told is going to be released in the first quarter of this year, I am thankful and excited. Then the let down. The first quarter has ended and still it is not released. Disappointed yet again. It is things like this that make me wonder why I ever got into Z scale in the first place. Certainly I can find everything I want for my layout in HO or N and for less money. Perhaps it's time to re-evaluate. The thought of abandoning my z scale empire, and starting over in another scale, causes me great concern, especially after all the money I've sunk into it so far. Money that would have gone a long way to secure my golden years. It's probably too late to start over anyway as I don't have a lot of years left. I wouldn't live long enough to get to the same place in another scale as I am now in Z. It's very frustrating when you are told, it's coming this quarter but it doesn't. I guess you can't take anyone at their word. anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 10:05:38 GMT -5
Keep in mind AZL is a small operation and many product releases are out of their control or, they are being held to insure we are getting a product that is being held to a higher standard. What exactly are you so disappointed about?
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Post by QcKraag on Apr 2, 2017 11:59:23 GMT -5
Humm, well I also do other scales, and all companies push back release dates, heck I have been waiting for a rapido trains Fpa-2 that is now a year and a half past due date... the companies have to ensure that they are going to sell enough units to break even... why would they be in business otherwise. We really have to count ourselves lucky AZL doesn't ask pre-orders first like many other companies in other scales do. And also that they keep developping, and sometimes at a loss to help the scale move forward, certain models they produce. Yes they milk certain models and reprints, but thats to ensure devellopement of models which end up being in the red...
I also get frustrated sometimes that a gevo, a p42 or even a budd cp rail via car isn't produced, but I know my budd car domes and end car domes will be in the red items for AZL if they ever produce them... but am willing to wait, because until I can inject 100000$ in a model and presell all if them, I won't be producing them...
Prairie shadows in N scale had to sell 2000 psc cabooses to break even at 50$ US each
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Post by Hans Riddervold (AZL) on Apr 2, 2017 12:55:13 GMT -5
Yes, usually it is out of our control. Our manufacturer is relatively small, but good. We work with a tentative production plan and it does get changed often. If we delay a product, it is due to quality control. Sincerely, Hans
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Post by zoinks007 on Apr 2, 2017 14:26:14 GMT -5
I wouldn't live long enough to get to the same place in another scale as I am now in Z. It's very frustrating when you are told, it's coming this quarter but it doesn't. I guess you can't take anyone at their word. anymore. My inner child understands your feelings, and I'm certainly not going to argue your thoughts or frustrations. Given your frame of reference, I'm sure these feelings valid from your point of view. All of us, I'm just as sure, can say we've felt that way about something, somewhere, along the way.
I don't know Rob or Hans personally, but for the most part they're the face of AZL here in the forum. My guess would be AZL has a few other employees but probably not more than, oh, maybe 10 total. Certainly not more than 20.
Yet they're coordinating design, supply chain, manufacturing, and distribution in a global business. They sell globally, and they manufacture globally. This is nothing short of an American success story and an amazing body of work.
So if Hans says ES44's in April after Chinese New Year, then recants and says it'll be delayed given QC concerns, I believe him. It's a couple of guys trying to drive the train in Columbus, Ohio (if memory serves), when most of the train is in China. Apologies for the pun, but that *any* product comes out is amazing to me (having started a couple of businesses myself, and having failed spectacularly along the way).
I'd merely suggest that it's clear to me Hans and Rob are monumental Z supporters, and while I'd love to see an ES44 on my layout, I'm good with waiting until they're done baking. Like I said in another post, I wish only continued success to you, Hans and Rob, and I am thankful for the products you've brought to market. They're innovative, high in quality, and a joy. They be done when they be done, and hopefully we all can try to understand the complexities and challenges you faced along the way to bring these products to us. I for one know it ain't easy.
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Post by dave on Apr 2, 2017 17:02:28 GMT -5
Willy...when you entered the Z-scale world, you knew what was available. You also probably knew that there are four primary manufacturers in Z-scale (AZL, MTL, Full Throttle and Marklin).
No one at AZL has a crystal ball when it comes to exact release dates. They can only tell us an expected date. I, for one, am glad they won't release a product until it is right. If that happens to push back the date, so be it. Trust me, they will catch far more grief for releasing something that is not right rather than not on time.
I also do some N-scale because there are some things that we will NEVER see in Z-scale (Con-Cor Pioneer Zephyr as an example) and I want to have those models. I just have a 2' x 4' oval for running N-scale for now. If there are models you absolutely must have, you better get into N-scale as well.
I am also disappointed at some of the releases and I also watch for them intently. My wallet thanks me every time something gets released that I don't really want.
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Post by rshimada on Apr 2, 2017 18:34:35 GMT -5
I started taking Z seriously because of American Z Line.
My understanding is that the only model railroad companies with any production in the United States are: * Bowser, * InterMountain, * Micro-Trains
Apparently Athearn has about 12 employees.
Many model railroad companies cannot afford to own offshore manufacturing. They are small companies looking to partner with other small companies.
So yes: delays will happen.
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Post by BAZman on Apr 2, 2017 19:22:01 GMT -5
Zoinks: AZL is Rob and Hans, both business people in another world. AZL is their Hobbyist side. It is just the two of them with Hans in Norway with passionate interests in US railroads and Rob based in D.C. with interests in the Swiss rails. They plan, draw and finance and contract with a China supplier that several others use (in other scales with *very* good detail) since the Sanda Kan partial closure due to 90 age and buyout. This requires periodic travel to Asia, many back and for design and trial runs to get the parts, details, paint colors, etc. all correct before they release to production. There are many back and forth, costs, time, etc. before this happens. In the mean time, the manufacturer's other customers have this going on too. At some point, this can easily delay or reschedule AZL's slot. With AZL's desire to be more road specific, there are more checks-&-balances of the product detail, prior to production.
So, when 2 guys decide to free up some extra hours out of their real life business responsibilities, just to make trains for a vast varieties of railroads, body styles, locos and else, I believe they are doing one heck of a job.
Just the 2 of them. Rob Kluz helps in the U.S. with data, incoming inspections and distribution. Another crazy and thankless job too.
Willy, dude, just relax. You too Whaleyman. Something will certainly come your way, soon.
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Post by zoinks007 on Apr 2, 2017 19:34:40 GMT -5
Zoinks: AZL is Rob and Hans, both business people in another world. AZL is their Hobbyist side. It is just the two of them with Hans in Norway with passionate interests in US railroads and Rob based in D.C. with interests in the Swiss rails.... ...So, when 2 guys decide to free up some extra hours out of their real life business responsibilities, just to make trains for a vast varieties of railroads, body styles, locos and else, I believe they are doing one heck of a job. Just the 2 of them. Rob Kluz helps in the U.S. with data, incoming inspections and distribution. Another crazy and thankless job too. Then what they're doing is even MORE amazing. Thanks for pointing all of that out...I had no idea. To Hans and Rob (and Rob), I should love to buy you guys a beer if we ever meet. Actually we all owe you several, IMHO, at the very least.
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Post by QcKraag on Apr 2, 2017 22:16:24 GMT -5
Yeah, and lets hope next year they will come the springfield way so we can finally meet them
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Post by Hans Riddervold (AZL) on Apr 2, 2017 23:56:45 GMT -5
You should be able to find all of us at the upcoming NTS in Orlando. Best, Hans
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Post by charlie on Apr 3, 2017 12:53:48 GMT -5
Doing modeling means being patient, and we know that with Z scale you should be even more . We all want something to be released, but we are a lot with so many different wish! They've done an amazing job the last 7years, so many different models and with a good quality! What more do we want? Respect!
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Post by boxcarwilly on Apr 21, 2017 11:01:29 GMT -5
FINAALY!!!!! Now I'm a happy railroader.
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Post by markm on Apr 21, 2017 17:59:22 GMT -5
I think Willy is in a bit of shock for the moment. But I do expect to see an image or two for the cars running on his layout.
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