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Post by boxcarwilly on Nov 15, 2016 11:55:25 GMT -5
I made an attempt to change out the front coupler on my AZL F3 to the truck mount coupler provided. First let me say it is not as easy as the video suggests. I had a hell of a time getting the body off the chassis. Once that was done, and following the directions, I managed to get the original truck out and the new truck installed. Once I had completed the process, I test ran the engine and now it runs like a piece of garbage. It stalls, it derails going over turnouts, and it will not run at all on slow speeds. I have to crank the throttle up way past the recommended 10 volts to get it to move and even then it hesitates and stops and starts and it's just a horrible beast now and it WAS brand new. I really don't know what's wrong. I've examined the engine closely making sure the new truck is properly seated and I've checked the PCB to be sure I didn't disturb it during the changing process, but it just won't run the way it's supposed to. Yes I cleaned the tracks thoroughly before running it.
The second thing is once I replaced the shell, and looking at it dead on, I have this A unit with a gaping hole in the front. With the front piece gone, it looks like a face with a toothless mouth. Very disturbing to say the least. I am disappointed in the overall appearance now. I would have thought that AZL would have designed this piece with a knock out or cutaway so that it could still be used if the truck mounted coupler was installed. Very bad planning I think. At the very least AZL should have provided a piece that would replace the one removed and still accommodate the truck mounted coupler. If I can eventually get this engine to run properly, I just may put it back the way it was because it looks like crap now.
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Post by domi on Nov 17, 2016 4:00:58 GMT -5
What I would love for future AZL productions : indeed what they did for their 1st generation SD70M : coupler only clipped onto truck's arm. Then you simply have to remove the locomotive's shell, and you remove coupler from its truck just twisting it downwards. The dream would be complete had AZL done the same as on these very first units : a pilot / snowplow holding a screwed OPERATING (not dummy) coupler, easily removable (and swappable with a MTL #905 for example  ). AZL's big brass, any hint ? Dom |
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Post by boxcarwilly on Nov 18, 2016 11:29:07 GMT -5
Good luck with that Dom.
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Post by markm on Nov 18, 2016 12:30:18 GMT -5
Willy,
A couple of thoughts for you. I don't have any of the F3s yet, but as I understand it, all the swap out trucks are shipped without lubrication. Also I've always found the split chassis is very sensitive to the torque on the screws. Sometimes an almost imperceptible change in tension on the screw will change a poor runner into a good one.
Mark
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Post by boxcarwilly on Nov 19, 2016 10:30:08 GMT -5
Thanks Mark but I've done that. I've tightened and loosened the screws and lubed the truck and still it runs very, very poorly. I've even taken off my layout and put it on a test track with it's own power and I still get the same results. I've examined this thing quite closely, and I'm damned if I can find any visible reason why it should run so poorly. The B unit isn't too bad, but it hesitates and derails as well in both directions and I did nothing too it. I'm just not happy with the situation.
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Post by markm on Nov 19, 2016 13:19:31 GMT -5
Willy,
Yeah, I thought you'd have already tried what I suggested. The only other thought I have is whether reinstalling the original truck makes a difference on the A unit. There is the possibility you got a bad spare truck.
Mark
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Post by boxcarwilly on Nov 21, 2016 12:12:14 GMT -5
Hey Mark.
Yup! Did that last night but the same thing still happens which leads me to believe that I've done something to it during the change out. To be fair, before I began, I test ran both units and while the A unit ran flawlessly, the B unit did not. I figured it was just a matter of breaking it in, so I ran the B unit alone for almost an hour in both directions and it needed babysitting. Also, when I put both units on the track together and individually, I could not get them to run at all at slow speeds, anything from a crawl up to a scale speed of 40 MPH. When they did run, the A unit overtook the B unit within two and a third revolutions of my small layout. This tells me that something is wrong with them. If I have to crank the throttle up to 40 plus, or 5 amps and beyond to get any movement out of them at all, then draw your own conclusions from that. I have a GP38 that does exactly the same thing and has done right out of the box. It is one of three I got at the same time and the other two leave this one sitting in their dust. I find this most frustrating considering what I had to pay for these units. Certainly I did not get my money's worth with either of these unit.
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Post by markm on Nov 21, 2016 14:13:57 GMT -5
Willy,
I'm starting to run out of ideas. Since I don't have an F3 yet (no WP release), I don't have anything to look at. It's unfortunate that there isn't an assembly diagram to reference.
Are you really drawing 5 amps to get these locos to run? And they don't burst into flames? There isn't much in a Z scale loco that can handle much more than 1/2 amp, except the frame itself. Possibly a bad insulating spacer?
What you saw regarding A vs. B performance is exactly opposite what I see on the E units. I was assuming it was the absence of the headlight that made the B units faster. I'll have to reexamine that theory. If it's any consultation, you're probably better off with an A unit dragging the B as compared to my B units pushing the A.
Regarding the GP38, could this be from the first run with the frame casting problems?
Wish you success in solving these problems,
Mark
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Post by boxcarwilly on Nov 22, 2016 12:03:27 GMT -5
Mark:
Yes that's right and that makes it move. The higher up I go, the faster it will move but even if I turn my throttle all the way to the right, the best speed I can get out of this set is maybe 60MPH. I have another set, A and B and it runs like a dream and I just barely have to turn the throttle on before it moves at a crawl. I really don't know what else to do. You're right, there should have been some kind of assembly diagram to compliment the video on how to change trucks. As for the 38, it was from the first run since I purchased it and two others as soon as they were at my dealer. I was unaware of casting problems with the frame. If this is true, then AZL owes me a new frame. So much for quality control.
Here is something else that ties in, if AZL knew that there was a problem with the first run 38's and didn't say anything about it or offer replacements at AZL's cost, then that makes them liable and could be sued for knowingly selling defective products. HUMMMM! But then if all three were from the same run, then why do my other two out perform this one?
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Post by markm on Nov 22, 2016 13:29:38 GMT -5
Willy,
regarding the GP38s it was a problem with the purity of the metal used in the frame casting. It doesn't affect all units and the problem is sort of like who finds the prize in the Christmas pudding. Here's a discussion on it:
www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/putting-marklin-quality-in-a-gp38-2.88404
This is really a problem that is difficult to inspect and one had to rely on the metal supplier. Getting to the F units, it sounds like a near short between the frame halves but not knowing more about the F units, I've run out of suggestions at the moment. Mark |
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Post by boxcarwilly on Nov 23, 2016 11:38:04 GMT -5
Mark:
When I changed out the trucks, I didn't put the plastic spacer between the two halves in the front back in. But the instructions say it doesn't matter. Now I'm wondering if I should have replaced it. That might account for the constant stalling and lack of movement at slow speeds, but it wouldn't account for the derailing at all my turnouts. I think I'd better take this apart again and see if I can find a logical reason for these problems.
W
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Post by markm on Nov 23, 2016 13:16:52 GMT -5
Willy, If the F3 design looks like the E units: medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/1/pdf/88628_explo.pdfI could see a missing spacer allowing frame contact, diverting power from the motor and causing the high current flow. I could also see a missing spacer near a truck preventing the truck to move freely enough to negotiate turnouts. Finally, are the instructions you mentioned available on-line? I might be able to come up with some ideas if I could see them. Mark |
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Post by boxcarwilly on Nov 24, 2016 12:11:50 GMT -5
Mark, I was using the same instruction for the coupler change on the E8. I got that off of AZL's product line on Z Scale Monster. As for truck movement, I've examined that closely and there doesn't seem to be any restriction. It seems to have the same degree of movement as my E8 and my other F3. I'm going to be taking it apart again this weekend and put the spacer back in and see if that changes anything.
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Post by markm on Dec 5, 2016 1:58:21 GMT -5
Willy,
Just wondering if you've had any joy with your F3s?
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Post by boxcarwilly on Dec 6, 2016 11:59:41 GMT -5
Hey Mark:
Strange you should bring this up and no I've had absolutely no luck getting the A unit to run the way it is supposed to. I replace the original set of trucks and I've been attempting to run it without the shell but it's been futile. The B unit runs but it hesitates a lot and to make things worse, I dropped it on the floor and broke the coupler so that has to be replaced and of course, AZL doesn't sell couplers by themselves and from what I've seen, AZL doesn't sell replacement trucks and couplers for the F3 units. I've just given up on them. I've put them both in the scrap pile. What an expensive waste.
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