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Post by boxcarwilly1 on Nov 20, 2018 17:14:25 GMT -5
I have reached the end of my rope in Z scale. I have spent years building my layout and many thousands of dollars on engines and rolling stock and nothing works the way it is supposed to. I spent months changing out my MTL turnouts to Marklin because the MTL turnouts are garbage. To my disappointment the Marklin turnouts worked well I first installed them but now they are no better then the MTL. Every engine that I have either derails crossing over them or stalls, hesitates or shutters and it's just so maddening. I have cleaned and re-cleaned my tracks to the point where they shine like the sun, but it doesn't help as in certain sections of my layout almost all my engines stall and it's never in the same place. I have one section of track in my yard which I finished building last year where all my engines run flawlessly in one direction but they all shutter, hesitate, in the opposite direction and I can't figure out why. It's as if the polarity in this section is reversed somehow, but I don't see how that would happen since that section is tied into the rest of that tack and gets it's power directly from the power pack. I have freight cars of varying types and sizes that will not go over these turnouts without derailing and no matter what I do, I can't resolve the situation. Some of these remote Marklin turnouts that I installed worked perfectly at first, but they don't now. To be fair, only 5 out of 30 quit working and I've checked and rechecked the wiring to make sure that they are connected and secure but still they don't want to work. I've spent so much time on this layout, time I could have spent doing other things. Time I will never get back. The money I've laid out I could have gone from one end of this country to the other by luxury train, twice. I got into z scale because one can do so much more in a small area. More then what can be done with HO or N scale. But in retrospect, I think it was a horrible and expensive mistake. I should have stayed with N scale. I never had this many problems with N or HO. The fact that since I began this layout, I have worked alone being unable to attract anyone to help me at any stage of build which has added to my frustration level. As I approach my 70th birthday, I can't help but wonder if I was insane. Truthfully, it has been a major disappointment. Certainly my frustration level and blood pressure are the highest they have ever been. A word of advice for anyone just staring out in this scale or even thinking of it, "Consider it carefully. Nothing is as it seems. If you must build a z scale layout, consider doing so without any turnouts because no matter which you choose, they are poorly manufactured and will cause mega problems with reliability and dependability." Many members on this forum say that all these problems are part of the fun of z scale model railroading. Not true. Fun is running your trains without derailments or stalling and being able to derive satisfaction watching them go from point A to point B without even the tiniest of hic-cups and feel good about what you have accomplished. Derailments, engine stalls and so on, ARE NOT FUN. Frankly I've had enough. It's time to call it a day. |
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Post by texrail on Nov 20, 2018 17:28:42 GMT -5
Dear Willy,
i´m sad to read your disappointment, but I understand you to a certain degree. Yes, turnouts are a constant problem in our scale. That´s the reason, why I stopped building new tracks at the moment and concentrated myself on scenery. But the atlas Turnouts are coming and everything will be good. And if not, the are the fasttrack turnouts and also modified marklin-turnouts from a guy from Hungry. Remenber the possibillities you have with z scale: Long trains in wide open spaces! Forget these layouts in an old tv-set or on a pizzaplate! In N scale you need only money, in Z scale it is a challange! Stay with us!
Best, Ingo
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Post by Commodore on Nov 21, 2018 17:51:07 GMT -5
Dirty track...
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Post by zscalehobo on Nov 21, 2018 18:12:27 GMT -5
Commodore ... he did say: "I have cleaned and re-cleaned my tracks to the point where they shine like the sun, but it doesn't help as in certain sections of my layout almost all my engines stall and it's never in the same place."
It's that time of the year when people are feeling cold weather and thus heading indoors. Time for the trains! Great. However, I find that many people are wrestling with the same issue. Some good housekeeping tips are to keep things covered when not in use. The layout could have dust on it. Then, the trucks of the locos pick this up and voila! You have the makings of a huge headache.
I always keep a pristine oval of track on the side (MTL oval or Rokuhan R028) stored in a climate-controlled area, covered and dust free ... and a separate power pack. Test the locos on that "golden oval" first and then attack the track/layout separately.
You have to isolate variables and don't just blow out on the message boards.
Lots of people will take this kind of post and think Z is not viable.
I'm posting new videos every few days showing trains running ... I'm not having any of these issues.
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Post by davestubbs on Nov 22, 2018 3:49:57 GMT -5
Hi Boxcar,
I really understand your frustration as I've been there. the one thing that REALLY REALLY helped me out with the stalling was the use of a gauge master track cleaner. I as well cleaned my track till it shined and had same problems as you are. the gauge master senses the engine stall and sends a voltage spike the keeps the engine running. sounds bad but does work really well. I use it with all my engines AZL, Micro trains, and marklin. Its been in use for over 5 years now and it keeps not only my track clean but the loco wheels as well.it just plugs in between track and transformer. best thing I've bought for my little layout.
As far as the switches go something to check is if the frog is getting any power. I made the mistake of running my track power through the switch to power my inner loop so when I had a derailment the frog power lead was the weak point and it blew like a fuse. it was hard to trouble shoot because the frog was touching the rail for contact of power but when an engine ran over it the frog point would "bounce" off the rail causing stalling.
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Post by Commodore on Nov 22, 2018 8:17:54 GMT -5
Ballast dust ...is the killer of Z scale operations, Seriously!
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Post by neverland on Nov 22, 2018 8:58:03 GMT -5
I don’t ballast. Too much dust. I hear your frustration but to be honest my HOs stall at turnouts too! At my train club, some locos run great clock-wise but derail going counter. Some make the circuit without a hitch for an hour and then decouple at every switch thereafter. It’s just how it is, regardless the scale.
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Post by boxcarwilly1 on Nov 22, 2018 11:23:35 GMT -5
First, I have my layout in my basement so a climate control situation is not possible. Second, I clean my track with an alcohol solution, then follow that up by sanding with an emery board and finally vacuum with a portable Dyson vacuum. My engines are professionally cleaned by a gentleman who lives down the street from me. He cleans all types of model locomotives, so no problem there. As for the turnouts, MTL turnouts have always been garbage. As Joe from MTL once admitted to me that they had to sacrifice functionally for aesthetics. Something I never could accept. It has been suggested that I should change yet again to either Atlas or Rohukan switches. Well I have never seen any Atlas switches that are remote. All those I've seen are manual and require some sort of under table tortoise to operate them. On my layout this isn't possible. As for the Rohukan, they might work better but since they are two wire and require an entirely different switch machine which is bulky and awkward and is not compatible with any but a Rohukan power source and my Marklin switches are three wire, again this is not possible. I've been told by professionals in the manufacturing industry that the problem with model train switches is the points are square and should be either rounded or tapered so as not to catch wheel flanges. Rohukan has the best solution to this by cutting a notch in the rail for the points to fit into. If they had been available when I first started out, I would have used them instead of MTL and Marklin thus eliminating the problem of derailments. Also the frogs on Rohukan turnouts are cut deeper to allow wheel flanges to pass over without riding up and derailing. As for the stalling, I don't think any manufacturer can solve this. As Neverland puts it, "It's just how it is." I find this of little comfort. As for engines stalling at various points along my lines, I don't understand why this is. Engine A, may stall in one section track while engine B, stalls in another. Like I said before, No two engines stall in the same location twice. The one really frustrating problem I have is in my yard. The entry/departure track is isolated from the rest of the layout. and controlled by it's own power source. Engines will travel flawlessly right to left as they should but in travelling left to right, they stall, hesitate, sputter and work very poorly until they clear that section of track. It's like there are two separate currents passing through that track in opposite directions and I know that this is impossible. I just don't understand it and it's the only place on my entire layout where this happens. Frankly I think there are gremlins at work here. I have yet to have any of my trains make a complete circuit of the layout without encountering a problem of some kind or another. Like I said, I've had enough. The time has come to say goodbye to Z scale. If I had the money and time I'd rebuild my layout in N scale. Sadly, my time grows short with each passing day.
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Post by dave on Nov 22, 2018 12:47:53 GMT -5
Willy....what exactly do you want people to tell you here? If you are truly done with Z-scale, tear it up and put everything on ebay and expect to get half of what you paid for it. You can then take that money and buy Kato Unitrack in N-scale and have flawless running forever.
Z-scale is more finicky than N-scale. Z-scale is more expensive than N-scale. There is much more selection in N-scale than Z-scale.
What are you waiting for? Get rid of the frustration in your life with Z-scale and move on to N-scale. Maybe that will bring you the joy that is supposed to come with model trains.
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Post by BAZman on Nov 22, 2018 14:05:23 GMT -5
as much as the 'professional' has cleaned the locos, I bet the wheels not and also the wheel wipers on the MTL and marklin locos. Get and alcohol wipe or paper towel with a few drops of alcohol. Place on the track, place on truck over it and power up. Use a finger **in front* of the loco to allow the powered wheels to slip.
If the wheels are clean, there will be *nothing* on the wipe.
Maybe a low current power pack? tripping.
We set up at shows several times a year so everything has been stored in the open garage, vacuumed (sorta), track wiped (not abrasively), loco wheels cleaned, and off we go all day over 20 scale miles of track with all manufacturers.
If I was there, I'll bet I can make it right. Sorry that I don't live closer.
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Post by tjdreams on Nov 22, 2018 22:06:49 GMT -5
Dave is right.
Since none of your Z scale stuff works as it should just get rid of it and move on to a different scale.
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Post by Rob Albritton on Nov 23, 2018 20:58:49 GMT -5
So many things from “boxcar willy”s posts just make me cringe.
Let me bottom line it:
My layout’s main line is now about 200 feet long. Yes. That’s right: 200 feet. It climbs over 5 feet in elevation alone. It has every major brand of track made: MTL, Marklin, Atlas, Rokuhan, hand laid. It has every major turnout ever made: Marklin, Peter Wright, MTL, Rokuhan, and hand laid.
It’s in a garage with the door wide open for hours at a time. Dust and dirt fly through the air.
It gets cleaned with little squares of white T-shirt material. That’s it. Nothing else.
The locomotive wheels get cleaned more than the track. Rolling stock wheels get cleaned too.
It runs great.
You took an Emory board to your track? Good Lord! What did that track ever do to you? Read the lines above. Big hint: it’s Not your track! It’s the other part of the electrical contact. Also known as the wheels!
So now you have sanded down track with a million little grooves in it that will be the perfect place for dirt to cling and be hard to remove.
I really hesitated to respond to this post. Mr. Boxcar, I really want you to be happy. But after reading about how you are dispondant about no heir to leave your Z empire to, and this latest post about how everything in Z scale is rubbish, I just felt like I needed to write something. My point is that Z scale works well, and in this season of Thanksgiving, I really hope you find something that makes you happy.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 4:01:44 GMT -5
When not in use (and when I will begin building the scenery), my layout will be covered with a piece of fabric, resting on a removable structure made of 1/2" square wooden slats (it will never be presented at exhibitions or even leave its room, the visitors will come to me) ; this helps avoiding dust, on the scenery too, very difficult to clean and which makes the colours "pale" after some time ; I did so on my former N layout ... To clean the track, I used a "Schienenmop" with the original cleaning liquid after building the track (about 6 months), the cleaning pad became black and I hadn't any issues with contacts (but I had to insist on some places). I have a friend who noticed stalling on the turnouts ... in HO, when the loco was running too slowly ! For myself I must add that trains will run over the (Rokuhan) turnouts at a "reasonable" switching speed, I don't wanna achieve "snail speed" : most of my visitors will be friends with children, 6 to 12 y.o., and they could fall asleep if they watch a loco running at an "hypnotic" speed !  |
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Post by zscalehobo on Nov 24, 2018 15:47:54 GMT -5
You took an Emory board to your track? Good Lord! What did that track ever do to you? Read the lines above. Big hint: it’s Not your track! It’s the other part of the electrical contact. Also known as the wheels! So now you have sanded down track with a million little grooves in it that will be the perfect place for dirt to cling and be hard to remove. This is exactly right... using abrasives to "SAND" your tracks will definitely create striations that end up ATTRACTING more and more contamination, thus multiplying the problem A THOUSAND-FOLD. I find that people migrating from other scales use such items like Briteboy, erasers and other abrasives. These are not suitable for Z scale, in my opinion. That being said, I do use polishing PAPER ... in the 1200 to 2000 grit range. But that's only after removing all the oils. This is a last ditch effort if the section of track is corroded or has some other issue that cannot be solved with regular cleaning. Here is my procedure documented at YouTube. The polishing is ONLY used if I consistently have a stall at that specific spot. Otherwise, only the wipe-down method works as Rob indicated. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 17:17:40 GMT -5
I must add that unfortunately I noticed sometimes "asperities" at the ends of the track sections, the profiles seem to be cut with a kind of shear during manufacturing ; there can be a noticeable "click" when the train runs over such an asperity. I had to file (or sand) them away but every time I finished (at least the "top" of the tracks) with "thin paper" (minimum 800 or 1000), as "zscalehobo" wrote. And after cleaning my trains ran smoothly over the track junction ...
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