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Post by markm on May 2, 2013 19:07:06 GMT -5
I was wondering if AZL had given thought to a lighting option for the heavyweight cars?
Would anyone be interested in a lighting kit?
I want to do a few of my cars, provided the design allows it and am planning to dismantle a car this weekend to see what I can do.
Mark
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Post by modelwarships on May 2, 2013 22:00:01 GMT -5
Yes, lighted caboose and EOT would be cool.
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Post by markm on May 2, 2013 22:39:29 GMT -5
Timothy,
Thanks for the input. There is (or was) an EOT box already available.
I've also thought about the caboose, but will all the wheel set, dimension and taillight options, it would not be a simple project.
My thoughts for the heavyweights are interior lighting for the diner, parlor and the pre-announced chair cars, with the ability for a taillight/herald on the parlor. Maybe more if there is a good space in the roof to mount a PCB.
Mark
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Post by Rob Albritton on May 3, 2013 5:11:50 GMT -5
I was wondering if AZL had given thought to a lighting option for the heavyweight cars? Would anyone be interested in a lighting kit? I want to do a few of my cars, provided the design allows it and am planning to dismantle a car this weekend to see what I can do. Mark Mark, We considered lighting and interior for the HW series, and decided to let the after-market fill that void. No planning or preparation for lighting or interior went into the design, but see an attached exploded diagram - it may help you develop a lighting kit. I'm VERY much in favor of anyone who wants to design and produce a lighting kit for the cars. I think it would be a very cool option. best, -Rob(A) AZL PS: For the curious, the drawing shows the original design for the swing steps - it never worked quite right and did not look any better than the steps attached to the trucks, so we went with the more mechanically reliable design: steps attached to the truck. Attachments:
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Post by markm on May 3, 2013 10:51:33 GMT -5
Rob(A),
I appreciate your comments and the image is a real bonus. Thanks. At first glance, it looks like a board could fit nicely on the glazing panels up against the roof piece.
I agree with you on the interior work. I don't think most people would care and I can see it adding $20 to the car price.
I'm not sure I want to be a producer of kits, but for the PC boards, I can make 10x more than I need for the same price....if there is interest it makes one think.
I grew up around lines that SP & WP ran passenger trains, and to me a dark, empty coach is just as unreal as a boxcar with with shiney, rust-free wheels.
Mark
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Post by Ztrains on May 3, 2013 10:57:51 GMT -5
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Post by markm on May 3, 2013 12:11:16 GMT -5
John,
Thanks for the info, but I don't think the Rokuhan board is what I want. Beyond the uncertainty of the board size and LED location, looking at the circuitry on the board, I believe it will only work with the Rokuhan controller.
I was planning on looking into third party wheel wipers, but I'm unsure I'll find something appropiate for the heavyweight trucks.
Mark
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Post by boxcarwilly on May 3, 2013 12:33:12 GMT -5
Interior lighting after market installation would be an excellent way to keep the cost down provided it is simple to install and doesn't take someone with a degree in electrical engineering to do it. A couple of years ago, I was looking at adding lighting to my MTL cabooses and when I couldn't find something that was ready made and easy to install, I went searching and found a guy on Ebay who was adding ditch lights and other such lights to Z and N scale engines and then selling them. He also did the same with cabooses and added marker lights upon request and only charged 50.00 per car. I asked him if he could do passenger cars as well, thinking ahead, and he said he could for the same price as a caboose, but because I didn't have any at the time, I never bother to pursue it. I haven't seen him on Ebay lately so I don't know if he is still doing it, and I didn't think at the time to get his information. Stupid me. There is a guy in England though that makes and installs lighting for British or European passenger cars, and I found him through a link on Google, but I haven't looked for him in months. Don't know what he charges again because I didn't have any at the time.
I should hunt for both these guys again.
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Post by markm on May 3, 2013 18:27:31 GMT -5
Willy, I agree the lighting should be simple. I'd like to do something like Rokuhan did: www.rokuhan.com/english/news/2013/02/how-to-install-room-light-on-kiha52.html Unfortunately, this solution requires work in the design stage and everyone to pay a few bucks more to bring power into the car: whether you use it or not. For the heavyweights, one would have to remove the trucks, add the wheel wipers and reattach using a conductive screw through into the car. The rest is attach the wires and mount the board. The MTL rolling stock is a bit more complecated because they don't use metal wheels as is Marklin which doesn't use bolster pins. The AZL cabooses are an easy add-on for interior lights, but marker & taillights are a bit more of a challenge since the detail vary by road. There is a guy I've seen at some of the west coast shows that does a nice job. I may still have his card in my files. Mark |
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Post by boxcarwilly on May 4, 2013 10:39:24 GMT -5
Years ago when I was modelling in HO, I bought a baggage car that was lighted. As I think back on it now, it was very, very basic. There were three grain of wheat light bulbs hooked in series inside with two wires that ran down to a metal screw bolster at each end. On the underside where the bolster joined the truck to the frame was a conductive piece of copper with four fingers two each side, that ran out and down and touched the metal axles just inside the wheels on each truck. It worked very well as I recall. The copper fingers were held to the truck with the metal screw bolster. I don't know if anything like that would be feasible here, but it certainly was simple enough. That car was the only passenger style car I had as it wasn't long after that, my HO trains sort of took a back seat to girls. The rest, as they say, is history.
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Post by boxcarwilly on May 4, 2013 10:52:43 GMT -5
I was just looking at the Rokuhan lighting system for their passenger cars and this would be perfect I think for AZL, MTL, or Marklin passenger cars if there was someway to secure the board to the roof of the car. I like the idea of a conductive spring attaching the board to a clip on the floor of the car. But what it doesn't show is where the power is coming from. Obviously it is being picked up from the wheels on the track for sure, but what method is being used? For North American style cars, perhaps as Mark suggested, some kind of wheelwiper cold be designed to conduct the power from the track to the clip where the spring attaches. However, it would have to be long enough and flexible enough to turn with the truck. But how about running a single piece of conductive metal from the clip to the metal axle. There could be one on the forward axle and one on the aft. I don't know if you'd need to do both trucks. I guess it depends on how you wire the lights. You could also use lights with varying intensity of brightness. Dim for sleepers and baggage cars, medium for diners and observation cars, and very bright for parlor cars or plain coaches. You'd probably need some kind of resistor to step down the power from the tracks to the lights to avoid burnout.
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Post by markm on May 7, 2013 10:56:55 GMT -5
Willy,
The wheel wipers is exactly what I was thinking of. There are a number of good sources. The trucks are a new design and will take some fiddling to make them work. I'd like to be able to make contact with both rails from both trucks to minimize flicker.
There is a bit of an issue with conductive bolster pins through the car: there's a big metal weight in the way.
That weight also makes the space in the car rather tight. I'm thinking about replacing the weight with electronics.
I want to use a current source circuit with LEDs for the lighting. That way it works at low DC and even with DCC. At least in the sleepers, my thought is to use baffles to limit the light, like you'd expect in the proto.
The Rokuhan method is neat. I'm thinking of buying a car and the lighting circuit just to study it. I'm afraid I don't see the Z scale standardizing on a lighting system. We can't even get agreements for a common coupler.
Mark
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Post by boxcarwilly on May 7, 2013 12:19:45 GMT -5
Mark,
Which ever way you do it, consideration needs to be given for the placement of the lights or light board. The Rokuhan cars are ready built to accept their light board, but according to the diagram that Rob posted above, there doesn't seem to be a way to install a board on the roof without making some kind of modifications. However, what if the light board were installed on the floor with some kind of defusing system over the lights so that they are not truly visible through the windows, yet give off just the amount of light intensity you want?
As for conductivity from the trucks to the lights, and using the side clip device as shown in the Rokuhan system, what if a four fingered clip could be mounted to the underside of the car between the truck and the car frame held in place by the bolster. It should be ultrathin so as not to increase the height on the car by any appreciable difference. Now from there two ultrathin wires could be run to a screw on the underside of the car just behind the trucks, one each side. These screws would hold the clip inside where the light board connects and gets it's power from. As in the Rokuhan example.
I haven't been able to find the link to the guy who does lighting for European cars, but as I recall, he used a circuit board with about 5 or 6 lights on it, but at one end he had a rather large and ugly looking thing for power pickup. I don't know if it was a European style resistor or some kind of capacitor, but it was big enough to take up a lot of space at one end of the car. there seemed to be a lot of wires coming from it as well. I think he cemented the board to the roof of the car as well. Not a good idea I'm thinking.
I agree with you about standardization of a lighting system. I think they only way anything like this would ever come into play is from an aftermarket manufacturer. But it probably won't happen in my lifetime.
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Post by markm on May 7, 2013 16:22:06 GMT -5
Rob(A),
I was wondering why the second run of sleepers have the trucks attached differently than the first and which is the production standard?
Mark
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