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Post by neverland on Sept 19, 2018 9:46:42 GMT -5
Joe from MTL got back to me and advised sending mine in. Neverland, try emailing him direct describing your issue and see what he says. I will. Thanks! Deb
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Post by dave on Sept 19, 2018 10:39:57 GMT -5
Arsenix2001...maybe this dealer needs to be named on here so others don't have to go through the same thing with them in the future. I know I certainly wouldn't patronize them because of this situation.
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Post by dazed on Sept 19, 2018 11:10:36 GMT -5
Or at least PM those of us who are interested in knowing. (I would be among that group)
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Post by arsenix2001 on Sept 20, 2018 8:20:10 GMT -5
So I took of the shell of my loco last night and not sure if I found anything or not. I have to be honest, I'm not sure the purpose of the circuit board other than providing the lighting. The way they have the board soldered and powered. The springs to the maxon motor are basically receiving direct track power. In other words it's not like power goes to the board, through the board and then to the motor. I verified by removing the springs and jumping the motor terminals direct to the chassis and the loco ran exactly the same with no board hooked up vs with the board connected. Not sure if this is normal or not. Even at zero throttle and the constant lighting adjuster totally backed off, the light is lit on the loco and it will coast up to 6" at zero throttle if near a power terminal. I have a feeling it is something to do with the Rokuhan constant lighting circuit.
Regarding the seller, *I have edited this post in light or new information from other members.* I was dealing with zscale monster along with another member. I cannot hold them totally at fault knowing that this strange operation is a result of the Rokuhan controllers. However I still am very dissapointed with the reply and lack of assistance I got from them as a dealer so this part will remain.
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Post by markm on Sept 20, 2018 10:03:38 GMT -5
Sorry to read of the problems people are having with the new SD40-2. I'm afraid I haven't received my SD40-2 from this production run so I don't have your experience yet. I do have units from the first production run and can say they run slow (50MPH proto at full throttle) and tight tolerances can cause problems between the loco and track. The PCB is just a lighting board, something to hold the LEDs. The connection between it and the motor is only useful when you install the DCC board. Since you are using the RC02 (the same as your dealer) there is a high frequency signal superimposed on the DC for lighting and I would expect lighting even at a 0 throttle. However there shouldn't be enough power in the pulse to move the engine. You might want to check that you actually have 0 volts on the track. I can explain how to filter out the constant lighting pulse, but I feel it would be a waste of time as these are at a kHz frequency and would be invisible to a motor. I have to agree with Jeff that posting in one of the more generalized Z scale forums would get a wider response. For starters you might want to look at the known issues from the past: www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/mtl-sd40-issue.90240/My local dealer always checks the locomotives before I get them, usually in my presence . He has a policy (as do most dealers) "no returns on electrical items." Interestingly, he normally doesn't deal in MTL locomotives: too many problems. Don't know if this helps any, Mark
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Post by arsenix2001 on Sept 20, 2018 11:26:31 GMT -5
Sorry to read of the problems people are having with the new SD40-2. I'm afraid I haven't received my SD40-2 from this production run so I don't have your experience yet. I do have units from the first production run and can say they run slow (50MPH proto at full throttle) and tight tolerances can cause problems between the loco and track. The PCB is just a lighting board, something to hold the LEDs. The connection between it and the motor is only useful when you install the DCC board. Since you are using the RC02 (the same as your dealer) there is a high frequency signal superimposed on the DC for lighting and I would expect lighting even at a 0 throttle. However there shouldn't be enough power in the pulse to move the engine. You might want to check that you actually have 0 volts on the track. I can explain how to filter out the constant lighting pulse, but I feel it would be a waste of time as these are at a kHz frequency and would be invisible to a motor. I have to agree with Jeff that posting in one of the more generalized Z scale forums would get a wider response. For starters you might want to look at the known issues from the past: www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/mtl-sd40-issue.90240/My local dealer always checks the locomotives before I get them, usually in my presence . He has a policy (as do most dealers) "no returns on electrical items." Interestingly, he normally doesn't deal in MTL locomotives: too many problems. Don't know if this helps any, Mark Thank you Mark. Regarding the seller I totally understand. It was the lack of any compassion to the situation that got me. Per the loco that is very helpful info. The motor will definitely coast at zero throttle. Does this on two different Rokuhan controllers. All of the azl locos and Even the MTL gp9s work great. Wondering if this maxon motor is hyper sensitive, wound tight? It runs great at speed but just picks up speed so quickly at low throttle the tq just isn't there to keep it running smoothly to me. Maybe it is normal to these units. Who knows, Can't even get MTL to reply to an email now. Isnt this hobby supposed to be relaxing?! Haha.
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Post by BAZman on Sept 20, 2018 12:40:07 GMT -5
You can always test a locomotive with pure DC, eliminating all concerns regarding power sources. How? Easy.
My test track has 4 AA batteries. Pushbuttons for 1, 2, 3, or 4 batteries. Your loco show easily move with one 1.5 battery and certainly move with 2. However, the difference between 1 or 2 batteries will likely be more than 2x and vary loco-to-loco. This is do to inefficiencies of motors not run at rated voltage and, mostly overcoming friction (mostly the trucks).
So try a 1.5 volt battery and see how it runs. Compare it to one or more of your other locos.
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Post by ztrack on Sept 24, 2018 7:34:28 GMT -5
I tested a MTL SD40-2 on a Rokuhan RC03 and sure enough, at zero on the throttle, the SD40-2 are moving at a good pace. Now to be fair, AZL locos will creep very slowly on an RC03 with zero throttle. I contributed this to a low voltage leak on the RC03 which I have brought up to Rokuhan for further examination. But the MTL speed range is very fast to blazing once the voltage is increased.
I am also curious if the constant lighting circuit of the RC02 and RC03 may be part of the issue.
As anyone tested the SD40-2s on something other than a Rokuhan controller? If so, what was the speed range like?
The Rokuhan Shorty's have a crazy fast speed. We developed the Ztrains Shorty Cable to provide greater speed range to the Shorty's. I tested the cable with the MTL SD40-2, but it reduced the power way too much. The SD40-2 would only start to move at the top range of the voltage.
Rob
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Post by rvn2001 on Sept 24, 2018 9:06:21 GMT -5
I tested my new MTL SD40-2 with one of the old blue Marklin controls. It operates consistent with the previous runs. I haven't experienced any problems at all.
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Post by rvn2001 on Sept 24, 2018 9:19:56 GMT -5
I have an older RC-02. I've noticed the same movement with some of both MTL and AZL locomotives. I've gone to only using Marklin and the modified MRC controls for just about everything I run. I only use the RC-02 on my z layout on a G scale flat car. Thom
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Post by arsenix2001 on Sept 24, 2018 10:21:22 GMT -5
Very interesting findings. I guess I am lucky all of my other engines play well with both of my rohukan controllers. What you describe is exactly what I was experiencing. The only thing that made it more tolerable was adding a second locomotive to draw down the voltage. Either way knowing that this is normal I have put mine up for sale on fleabay if anyone is interested. Asking 155 obo. Engine has about 5 minutes of total run time on it. Canadian Pacific livelry.
Side note I edited my post regarding my seller in light of this info from your tests. Thanks for all of your info.
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Post by markm on Sept 24, 2018 13:13:12 GMT -5
Interesting problem. I had a bit of time this morning to look into this a bit. I'm using the RC02 and AZL GPs for testing purposes. Rob is right, the constant lighting pulse is output even at minimum throttle so the output to the unoccupied track looks like: with a mean output at about 400mV. Add a locomotive and the pulse drops to about 400mV, add a second engine (as arsenix) and it drops even lower. Note that the floor of the output is essentially zero. For the AZL GPs I've measured the starting voltage to be 400-800mV so motion is possible. Since the DC output of the RC02 is zero, I doubt there is much Rokuhan can do to change this short of disabling the constant lighting pulse. However, we should be able to add a couple of components to the feed line to block that pulse and things are solved. Something I will play with tonight. Of course if someone has a filter in mind, speak up. Back to cleaning the pine needles off the roof... Mark
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Post by neverland on Sept 24, 2018 17:30:57 GMT -5
The dealer has received the last of my business. I’ll say no more.
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Joe
New Member
Posts: 31
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Post by Joe on Sept 25, 2018 9:40:21 GMT -5
Okay, my problem is just the opposite. Apply power, the lights come on but the loco just sits there. Goose it a bit and it takes off like gang busters, then stops dead again. This happens over & over. I’ve cleaned the track & my other AZLs & MTLs run just fine. Considering the long wait, what a disappointment! Deb If you are having problems with your engine, please send it back here, no matter where you bought it and we will be happy to take a look and fix it for you. Joe MTL
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Joe
New Member
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Post by Joe on Sept 25, 2018 9:50:35 GMT -5
Regarding our products, I would hope if you have problems you'll contact us so we have an opportunity to take a look at the engine in question and the rest of the run. Given production runs are in the thousands, there will be bad apples and we have always stood by our products. Anyone in the hobby for any amount of time knows we are as helpful as possible and want to make good your purchase. It's always best to deal with us directly, your dealer is not really in a position to fix anything and regardless of their return policy, give us the chance to make it right.
Joe
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