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Post by dave on Aug 8, 2018 13:54:03 GMT -5
I have been an N-scaler for quite a few years and about 5 years ago, I became interested in Z-scale because it is just so cool what they have done with both detail and running qualities. If you asked me a year or two ago, I would have sworn I was switching to Z all the way. A couple of months ago, I came to that crossroads that Doug talked about and have decided to primarily go back to N-scale. The biggest reason for that is that there are several things in N-scale that will never be available in my lifetime in Z-scale (SD70MAC, Pioneer Zephyr, Shay, UP Turbine, Glacier Express, Thomas, etc.). I love the variety in N-scale. Some other reasons are the expense of Z-scale, the lack of built structures, the deathly slow releases of new things, etc. I do wholeheartedly agree that Z has come a long way and AZL is primarily to thank for that. I have pared my Z-scale back to 4 locos and about 50 pieces of rolling stock. My Z-scale layout will be roughly 2' x 3' and my N-scale about 30" x 52". That is all the space I have for now and in the foreseeable future. I think for the next two-plus years, releases from AZL are going to slow quite a bit more. I just don't have 5-10 years to wait for things that may or may not ever get released. I want to enjoy the smaller scales now while I can still see them.
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Post by Curn on Aug 9, 2018 1:43:36 GMT -5
I got into Z around 2005. For the last 2 years I took a break from Z and have been playing with HOn30 and N scale including Thomas/British trains as my kid really likes Thomas. With the new Atlas turnouts about to be released, I figured I should dust off my Z stuff and start running some trains. Also the Rokuhan Shorty / SW1200 projects seem really interesting. Most of my Z layouts have been micro layouts with tight radius curves which is very limiting on what can be run. I really want to build something with wider curves that can run more of my rolling stock. I got out of Z two years ago out of just general frustration with how much time I was spending cleaning and maintaining equipment vs running trains. Also after 10 years in Z and a few Z layouts, I never really had a layout that worked right, with most of the problems being in the commercial roadbed turnouts. My first Z scale order in 2 years is on its way. Every scale has its issues.
Matt
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Post by neverland on Aug 9, 2018 3:45:47 GMT -5
I got into Z around 2005. For the last 2 years I took a break from Z and have been playing with HOn30 and N scale including Thomas/British trains as my kid really likes Thomas. With the new Atlas turnouts about to be released, I figured I should dust off my Z stuff and start running some trains. Also the Rokuhan Shorty / SW1200 projects seem really interesting. Most of my Z layouts have been micro layouts with tight radius curves which is very limiting on what can be run. I really want to build something with wider curves that can run more of my rolling stock. I got out of Z two years ago out of just general frustration with how much time I was spending cleaning and maintaining equipment vs running trains. Also after 10 years in Z and a few Z layouts, I never really had a layout that worked right, with most of the problems being in the commercial roadbed turnouts. My first Z scale order in 2 years is on its way. Every scale has its issues. Matt Hey Matt, I don't know the size of your layout but I minimize track & layout cleaning by covering it with one of those lightweight silver "space" blankets when I'm not running. Sure does save on cleaning. Deb
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Post by tjdreams on Aug 10, 2018 1:13:18 GMT -5
Where do we go from here?
We keep going in the same direction we have bin. To my knowledge not one of the manufactures affected by the AFFA shutting down has said they were closing their doors or going out of business. Yes it could happen some of the manufactures may just fold and close their doors but So Far all i've heard or read was their would be some delays. So why give up? Sure its a disappointing setback but i'll bet everyone reading this has suffered a setback or delay of some sort or another in their life before this. So Delays and setbacks are nothing new in fact they are more the normal in Z scale. This isn't the first time that's happened and it won't be the last time a new release gets delayed. Let's face it S##t Happens it's part of life.
Building a layout in Z scale or any other scale is like putting a 100,000 piece jigsaw puzzle together. Just because you can't find that one piece that fits "right here" right this second doesn't mean you never will, you simply move on to another part and build from there with the other pieces you have until that one piece that fits "right here" turns up. AZL's Loco's, passenger cars, and rolling stock are just a few pieces of that 100,000 piece puzzle.
Who knows Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. Maybe a move to a new factory will result in new Z scale chassis that are sound ready being built. Or possibly a completely new switcher, It may lead to some new buildings and or other details parts being released. Maybe a shortage of this or that will be enough for some untropnure to step up and start producing some new z scale products.
In short I intend to keep working on my modules and making do with what I have and what is currently available. After all if Z scale can survive the last 46+ years without the now delayed items it can survive a little longer without them.
David
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nick
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Post by nick on Aug 12, 2018 10:54:55 GMT -5
Went with Collecting Z scale, as that is what I have been doing for years. I buy what I can when it becomes available, as funds allow. I've found it a bit frustrating at times that by the time the funds are there, the item is not, but I've gotten used to that. There are still thing out there I want, so a delay in new items appearing for a while is not a complete disaster for me. Hopefully AZL and the other manufacturers will soon find a new source and the flow of new products will resume.
Would have liked to have said I'm building a new larger layout. I've never gone beyond the test figure eight. I made some progress on starting some modules last year, but this year not so much.
So I went with continuing just have I have done in the past. I'm still buying and collecting, and I'm still hoping to get a module or two up and running some day.
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Post by boxcarwilly1 on Aug 14, 2018 11:45:01 GMT -5
Greetings.
Having been away from z scale and this forum for quite some time due to medical issues, I would like to contribute my thoughts on this subject. First let me say that I had to re-register because the verification process used here is seriously flawed. I could not use my original username or password. This is the second time this has happened. Something needs to be done about this.
Be that as it may, even though I have not done any recent work on my layout, I have always been thinking about how I want to continue and complete my empire. True, I have thought about getting out of z scale and returning to HO because of the availability of items that I would like to have, and can't get in Z scale, but then I think of all the work I have done since I began my empire years ago, and in spite of being disappointed again and again by both AZL and MTL, I have soldiered on. I'm too old to start over anyway. Texrail made a comment in his post about what I would do with my layout in the event of death or severe illness and while I have been incapacitated this last little while, I have made arrangements with a railroad museum in British Columbia to accept my layout in it's entirety upon my death and this is reflected in my will. Problem solved. My family will ensure that this happens.
Upon reflection, z scale has had both it's rewards and disappointments. Rewards when things go right, and disappointments when they don't. But this can be said for any scale of model railroading or any other hobby for that matter.
Commodore talks about change. Would I change from Z scale to another? In my younger years, YES, if z scale had been my first choice. In my golden years and z scale being my last opportunity to build an empire, NO. I have too much invested.
The unfortunate thing about Z scale is it's uncertainty for the future. Companies that once offered a wide selection of z scale products have either gone belly up, or have been bought out by other companies who have in turn, shut them down, never to be heard from again. The range of Z scale products being offered seems to be getting less and less every year. At train shows, I have heard it said that z scale is a passing fad, that it is nothing more then a toy and other disparaging remarks. I am outraged by these comments, yet I have to wonder, with the demise of z scale manufactures, can they be right?
For my part, I am committed to completing my empire and I hope to do this before I die. I have come to rely on both AZL and MTL as the main suppliers of the items I look for. Certainly I have been disappointed by their decisions over the last 18 months, but I keep on keepin' on. I have to believe that things will get better.
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Post by dave on Aug 14, 2018 12:45:31 GMT -5
Willy...what Z-scale companies have gone belly up or been bought out? I know Intermountain dipped their toes in Z and it didn't work out for them, but I can't think of any others.
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Post by zscalehobo on Aug 14, 2018 13:14:40 GMT -5
At train shows, I have heard it said that z scale is a passing fad, that it is nothing more then a toy and other disparaging remarks. I am outraged by these comments, yet I have to wonder ... can they be right?
Is "Scale Bullying" a real thing? While I have never heard of such a thing in my visits to train shows, I don't discount what happened to you. Sorry about that. Wish we had some of our "z scale bodyguards" to help you. The few shows at which I have displayed moving z scale trains were always full of people looking and very interested to see z scale running. Nobody saying anything close to disparaging comments; it was more like "WOW! AWESOME! UNBELIEVABLE! LOOK AT THE DETAILS!" The "belly-up" and "less and less" comments are, pardon me if I may say, completely off base. As a small dealer it's been very hard keeping up with all the releases as there are so many! Since 2011 we have added Rokuhan and the hobby changed dramatically. MTL has new items every month, AZL has new items every half-month, in 2018 Noch released an entire new set of z scale pre-formed layouts (large, small, winter, summer, Rokuhan, Marklin plans) ... Not sure how much more new products we can handle!
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Post by mgatdog on Aug 14, 2018 13:39:43 GMT -5
Willy...what Z-scale companies have gone belly up or been bought out? I know Intermountain dipped their toes in Z and it didn't work out for them, but I can't think of any others. Well Dave Here is a list. They may not have been as big as AZL,MTL and Rokuhan. L G Thek Stonebridge Models Baz Model Kits Make My Models NZT Products Town Builders System MTL structures and GP’s Miller Engineering structures Sure there’s a few thing these things on EBay. But no longer in production.
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Post by mgatdog on Aug 14, 2018 13:58:04 GMT -5
The "belly-up" and "less and less" comments are, pardon me if I may say, completely off base. As a small dealer it's been very hard keeping up with all the releases as there are so many! Since 2011 we have added Rokuhan and the hobby changed dramatically. MTL has new items every month, AZL has new items every half-month, in 2018 Noch released an entire new set of z scale pre-formed layouts (large, small, winter, summer, Rokuhan, Marklin plans) ... Not sure how much more new products we can handle! [/quote] Frank MTL love there stuff . GP’s and structures are gone except for eBay floaters. SD 40’s some were in maybe see again land . Ya the old box cars with different paint scheme released each month. But nothing new as for design. AZL was with new stuff ,now there in limbo. Don’t want to rain on your parade. Doesn’t look like Z will be releasing much in next year or so as for new freight cars or locomotive designs. But I’m still in it till I’m pushing up the daisies. Bob
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Post by boxcarwilly1 on Aug 14, 2018 14:32:24 GMT -5
Thanks Conductor for chiming in here. These are the same names I was going to tell Dave. I'm sure there are a few more, but I'd have to go through what Z scale monster has on his board.
Hobo: I've purchased a few items from you over the years. Thanks
Engineer: Let me clarify what I said about, as you put it, scale bullying. I don't know what goes on down there in Trump Land or at the many shows you have, but up here, at the two shows I used to go to, the insults came not from the people who pay to get into the shows and look at all the displays and say, "WOW! AWESOME! etc., etc., but from members of other train clubs, primarily from HO and N scale but from larger scale clubs as well. Surprisingly, a couple of members from the CMRA have had some really hurtful things to say and interestingly, these particular members should know better, but I've come to learn that the CMRA is prejudice against Z scale. CMRA members are made up solely of larger scale owners and clubs. I don't know why this. It bothers me in that the CMEA makes a big deal out of promoting the hobby but yet they do everything to discourage Z scale. As there are only two of us who model in Z scale here, it is hard enough to get anyone interested in it without individuals and members of other clubs insulting our scale. That's why I don't go to the shows anymore. I can't speak to the other fellow but I know he feels the same way I do. I guess that's why sometimes I feel as if I made a huge mistake getting into Z scale in the first place.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 15:04:31 GMT -5
I think that the general ambience is poisoned by the present problems with AFFA ; I hope that AZL will go on, even through another joint venture ; don't forget, some Märklin US z-scale locos were developped in the past together with ... AZL ! And remember, a few years ago, Märklin announced bankrupt just at the beginning of Nüremberg toy fair ... and they are still there. And Faller had similar issues. And, first : do not consider what other people are saying about z-scale. It is the same thing in all domains of modelling : those, who say the most negative things are the less active in doing something by themselves ! A friend of mine, naval modeller, met once a guy who criticized the accuracy of some details at his model : but himself had a RC-ed ... PLAYMOBIL ship : no comment ... About the companies who passed by : yes, some firms no more exist ; but look at Pola in Germany : they gave up a long time ago, but Faller bought them, and I saw a former Pola model (the gravel plant in N), that I built over 35 years ago, still being manufactured and sold by Faller. OK, Micron Art is less active ; but on the other side there are some new firms like Archistories (I say it despite of the fact that I am not a friend of laser cuts), even distributed in Germany by ... Rokuhan (look at www.rokuhan.de/gebaeude-und-haeuser.html) !
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Post by Curn on Aug 14, 2018 20:02:10 GMT -5
Well Dave Here is a list. They may not have been as big as AZL,MTL and Rokuhan. L G Thek Stonebridge Models Baz Model Kits Make My Models NZT Products Town Builders System MTL structures and GP’s Miller Engineering structures Sure there’s a few thing these things on EBay. But no longer in production. I have some problems with the above list. Many of these companies were 1 or 2 people outfits that closed for personal reasons. L G Thek - Had health issues with his eyes. Never got back into the kit business. Stonebridge Models - Not sure what happened between him and her. It's a private matter. Baz Model Kits - AKA Rob Ray. He has a lucrative day job in the silicone valley that demands 60-80 hours/week. Retiring soon. Resuming making kits in 2019! Make My Models - Low resolution 3D printed models in Z. I can't imagine why they didn't sell well. NZT Products - David K had health /eye issues and now plays with N scale. He will be missed. Town Builders System - Joint venture between Stonebridge & NZT. Sold very well. Stonebridge closure took them down. MTL structures - I know Stonebridge & Rob Ray were doing some of the early kits. Then MTL got their own laser. Not sure how much StoneBridge was contributing to it. But it all seemed to stop at the same time. MTL GP’s - Victim of the Ajin Collapse & Kader restructuring. Also the Maxon motor prices doubled. Miller Engineering structures - They will be missed. Matt
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 0:21:41 GMT -5
To boxcarwilly1 : Why don't we create an own, independent, worldwide "ZSIG" (Z Scale Interest Group) ?
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Post by boxcarwilly1 on Aug 15, 2018 12:37:45 GMT -5
Conductor: Not a bad idea. Unfortunately, I don't have the foggiest idea of how to do something like that, but it is intriguing to be sure.
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