|
Post by Greg Elmassian on Mar 19, 2018 23:52:33 GMT -5
There are several versions of No-Ox-ID, but the only one you should use in this application is the "Special A" as you show in the picture of the actual product.
It is worth bringing this up because many people have just bought "no ox id" and got the wrong stuff...
I've used it for about 6 years on various electrical connections including an outdoor garden railway, on the rail joiners.
The black stuff you see is part gunk, but mostly the chemical reaction which will continue somewhat forever, so the "black" coming up will reduce in amount but will keep on coming to a smaller degree.
Greg
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 1:31:16 GMT -5
I wanna use this (I found on eBay) on Rokuhan tracks as a PREVENTIVE measure, at least on the upper "contact area" with the wheels ; do You think it's a good idea ? And then a Märklin cleaning car (PUSHED by a loco, "special run") for current servicing. What should I put on the cleaning pad, or should I use it dry ?
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Mar 20, 2018 1:36:16 GMT -5
There are several versions of No-Ox-ID, but the only one you should use in this application is the "Special A" as you show in the picture of the actual product. It is worth bringing this up because many people have just bought "no ox id" and got the wrong stuff... I've used it for about 6 years on various electrical connections including an outdoor garden railway, on the rail joiners. The black stuff you see is part gunk, but mostly the chemical reaction which will continue somewhat forever, so the "black" coming up will reduce in amount but will keep on coming to a smaller degree. Greg Thanks very much Greg, I've just updated the article with your clarification on the correct full name. John
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Mar 20, 2018 3:10:44 GMT -5
I wanna use this (I found on eBay) on Rokuhan tracks as a PREVENTIVE measure, at least on the upper "contact area" with the wheels ; do You think it's a good idea ? And then a Märklin cleaning car (PUSHED by a loco, "special run") for current servicing. What should I put on the cleaning pad, or should I use it dry ? From my limited experience: Since writing the NO-OX article, I've been running the same chassis for a little over 20 hours now, and the slow speed performance has not decreased at all, I'm incredibly impressed. That said, I'd always test first on a small loop for a week or so to make sure this NO-OX is right for you. John Raildig
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 4:12:10 GMT -5
John, Your "shorty" oval seems to be made with Rokuhan, too ; so I think it should work. But, my second question : how should I use my Märklin car for current servicing ? Alcohol ? Dry ? Or anything else ? I think that contact-spray "dries" unfortunately too quickly ...
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Mar 20, 2018 12:27:21 GMT -5
John, Your "shorty" oval seems to be made with Rokuhan, too ; so I think it should work. But, my second question : how should I use my Märklin car for current servicing ? Alcohol ? Dry ? Or anything else ? I think that contact-spray "dries" unfortunately too quickly ... I'm not sure I'd use a track cleaning car at all with this NO-OX, looks like a regular cleaning car would work to remove the thin layer of NO-OX. Anyone with more NO-OX experience, please correct me if I'm wrong on this. Again I'm going by what I've read from other users, but many say they simply dust (not really sure how that works) or vacuum the track occasionally. As part of my little ongoing test, I've just ordered one of these $10 USB vacuums. These are usually under powered noisy toys, but being the eternal optimist, I'll give this one a try. John Raildig
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 15:11:33 GMT -5
So the cleanng car would be useless after the NO OX application ? And I should only remove the dust ? This could perhaps be done with compressed "gas" in a "spray" (it is used to clean computer parts, among others ... ).
|
|
|
Post by markm on Mar 20, 2018 16:04:23 GMT -5
I've been watching this thread for a while and am wondering if anyone has looked to see that No Ox is mineral spirits: www.sanchem.com/docs/SDS-Sheets/NO-OX-ID-A-Special-SDS.pdfWhile it may prevent an oxide from forming, what will it do to traction tires? MTL's plastic wheels? Rail weathering? Since mineral spirits are commonly used as a degreaser, what happens when it works it's way into truck gearing? It's a paste so dust particles are going to stick to it. How to you clean that up? Seems to me a lot of unanswered questions. Mark
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 16:39:29 GMT -5
Briefly spoken : too good to be true !
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Mar 20, 2018 17:02:52 GMT -5
I had / have all these questions as well, which is why I went with this test on a Shorty. There are lots more questions and answers then I could put in to the article I wrote and I'd strongly suggest doing searches for "NO-OX, Model Trains". So far, and going from Linn Westcott of Model Railroader in the 1960s, to current users, the verdict seems near universally glowing on this product for trains. My test with this has only been going for a few days now, but the slow speed running results have been very, very impressive so far. John Raildig
|
|
|
Post by markm on Mar 20, 2018 23:49:36 GMT -5
John, I've found the information on the product confusing at best. The manufacturer's discussion with respect to model railroading suggests that it changes the chemical composition of the metal surface, like "seasoning" a case iron skillet. That surface has to eventually be worn down like scouring my example skillet. I find the claims that "I never cleaned my track again" suspicious. Where does the dust go?
It would be interesting if you could image the rails at about 20x (like my image above) to look for changes over time.
Regarding my questions about the plastics, it might be worth sacrificing one of the AZL spare trucks, applying the NO-OX to the traction tire wheels and gears, and watch what happens. Likewise apply some to a weathered section of Rokuhan and MTL track. After all, many of the plastics AZL is using weren't available when many of the reviews were written.
I would find the additional results will be interesting.
Mark
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Mar 21, 2018 2:14:03 GMT -5
Here's an interesting link from the guy (gary60s in this thread) who states he wrote the model train application directions for the NO-OX makers: NO-OX DirectionsI was a big skeptic too which is why it took me years to even try it, but so far so good here. Any new info as it pertains to Z would be welcome. John
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 3:05:34 GMT -5
Mark, I read the "NO-OX Directions" and noticed that, in fact, You could be right about probable issues with traction tires (and maybe plastic wheels : this point would not concern me, because I replaced all plastic wheels with those by FT or FV, metallic). But my "locomotive roster" is partialy made of AZL models with traction tires : GP7, GP9, F3A-B, the other types beeing an AZL NYC GP30 via eBay, the Budd's and the NH GP9 (I am still waiting for the NH FA ). So, I think that covering my layout when it will be operational (presently still under construction) and wiping off dust with my cleaning car would be the safer solution ... And, as I am talking of my layout since last year : it is not "Virtual reality", see the related topic !
|
|
|
Post by Greg Elmassian on Mar 22, 2018 14:58:00 GMT -5
I've followed the various "magic substances" on track for years, I guess since about 1963....
One theory that is based in fact is that a thin coat of about anything will retard oxidation of the rails because it blocks oxygen from oxidizing the rails. So thin oils, graphite, etc. does indeed work. It does NOT have to be a conductive liquid or material, the weight of the loco and the smallness of the contact patch gives you enough pressure to "press through" and get metal to metal and conduction.
Another helpful item is something that indeed will "eat" oxidation or corrosion. There are chemical compounds that will do this, and as far as I can tell, the stuff being discussed seems to have this "oxidation eating/reducing" capability. Also as far as I can tell, this stuff was originally made for the short-lived aluminum house wiring in homes, since they had terrible issues (now not allowed).
I've always used it as a "dielectric grease" in fittings that should conduct electricity.
I've tried just about all the stuff ever made, and the oils and coatings seem to all eventually build up and gunk up stuff. I'm also a bit paranoid about traction tires being attacked slowly, they do not instantly self destruct.
I use another compound, have used it for 20 years and it has never attacked rubber or plastic, it's solvent base is naptha, and the "oxide eating" chemicals work. Wiping it leaves a thin coat, just like wahl clipper oil.
Lately though, I've been doing the final cleaning with 99% sopropyl alcohol, and then I know there is no buildup or any residue...
Greg
|
|
|
Post by Commodore on Mar 22, 2018 17:06:13 GMT -5
I agree.
|
|