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Post by ztrack on Dec 24, 2017 10:42:01 GMT -5
One of the more frequent questions we receive here at Ztrack is about coupler compatibility. Since we are seeing many new Z scalers entering the hobby and joining the forum, we thought it a great idea to create a thread on this topic. This is not a thread to argue the benefits of one versus the other!
Okay so when starting is Z, there are essentially three coupler types on the market. These are Marklin, Rapido (used by Rokuhan) and the knuckle type couplers
Fist Marklin couplers. These are pretty much unique to Marklin. Micro-Trains offers Marklin style couplers as replacements for their products. For years Micro-Trains even sold rolling stock with Marklin style couplers. These can still be found on the 2nd hand market. Rokuhan now offers Marklin style replacement couplers for their line of locomotives and rolling stock. For this reason, it is possible to operate Marklin and products from the other manufacturers together. This includes AZL if you want to swap out the AZL couplers with MTL's Marklin style couplers.
Rapido couplers are common on the Japanese model lines such as Rokuhan. Rokuhan offers replacement couplers that allow their Rapido style couplers to be replaced with Marklin and knuckle styles of couplers.
Knuckle style couplers are the most popular system in North America. Micro-Trains was the first to offer this style coupler. The MTL couplers are Magne-Matic which allows for magnetic uncoupling of the cars and locomotives. AZL has introduced their line of AutoLatch TM couplers. These couplers will couple with MTL and Full Throttle couplers. The only difference is that magnetic uncoupling does not work with AZL. Full Throttle uses Bowser Buckler couplers on their products. Like the AZLs, these couplers will mate with Micro-Trains and AZL. But they will not magnetically uncouple.
So when selecting your trains, if you are looking at North American products, you can mix and match MTL, AZL and Full Throttle without difficulty. If you do want the magnetic uncoupling features, then you will need to swap AZL and Full Throttle couplers with MTL couplers.
One tip if you want to inter-mix Marklin style cars is to create a conversion car. These cars have a Marklin coupler on one end and a knuckle coupler on the other. Typically MTL cars are used for conversion cars as MTL offers both the Marklin and knuckle parts and it is very easy to swap these out on their products. Typically, all it takes is a replacement truck.
Another question we frequently get is why doesn't AZL and Full Throttle use MTL OEM couplers on their products like they do in the other scales. Years ago, MTL cancelled all of their OEM agreements with the Z scale manufacturers. This forced the manufacturers to find their own solutions. AZL was already moving down that road so they were not impacted. Full Throttle products did go through a phase where they equipped with AZL's until their own solution was available.
So I hope this thread shines some light on what is possible. Mix and match away!!!
Rob
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jdr61
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Post by jdr61 on Jan 4, 2018 15:29:25 GMT -5
Rob, I have a few AZL GP38-2s that have coupler droop! One or both of the couplers droop low enough that uncoupling is a problem as is the coupler picking the points at turnouts and sometimes derailing the loco. Is there an easy fix? Are coupler parts available? I have a few autoracks that plunged to the floor and luckily all that broke were their knuckles.
John Robb
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Post by neverland on Jul 16, 2018 5:13:06 GMT -5
So how difficult is it to change out Marklin couplers on rolling stock for knuckle couplers. Any tips or how-tos?
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Post by markm on Jul 16, 2018 8:22:06 GMT -5
First of all, here's just about everything I'll want to know about Z scale couplers: www.zscale.org/articles/couplers.html#marklin2mtlouThe most straightforward method is to just replace the coupler. You need to scrape the top off the hot melt pins to open the coupler box, replace the coupler and glue the plate back on:  Personally, I've never been pleased with this solution. I've had problems remounting the bottom plate and keeping it attached. I also feel that the coupler ends up being placed too far out.  But there have probably been 1000s of couplers successfully converted this way. I prefer replacing the trucks. The issues here are that Märklin uses snap-in trucks, rather than a bolster pin and their bolster isn't always in a prototypical position. So you need to fill and re-drill the car bodies. MTL provides all the necessary measurements. Zelatory make inserts for replacing couplers and kits to upgrade specific car types. available through Monster Z. I've used the kits: instructions are well written and I've been happy with the results. I also use transition cars, particularly with locomotives and when any of the above options would adversely affect the value of the rolling stock, as with limited editions. Hope this helps, Mark |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 9:02:19 GMT -5
I can add that I converted a Märklin caboose too (there was a topic about it), with a Zelatory adapter, MTL trucks and couplers, FT axles : not really cheap ; it looks and runs fine but I didn't test the function of remote uncoupling ; my first concern is that it stays ... coupled !
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Post by neverland on Jul 16, 2018 9:07:08 GMT -5
First of all, here's just about everything I'll want to know about Z scale couplers: www.zscale.org/articles/couplers.html#marklin2mtlouThe most straightforward method is to just replace the coupler. You need to scrape the top off the hot melt pins to open the coupler box, replace the coupler and glue the plate back on: View AttachmentPersonally, I've never been pleased with this solution. I've had problems remounting the bottom plate and keeping it attached. I also feel that the coupler ends up being placed too far out. View AttachmentBut there have probably been 1000s of couplers successfully converted this way. I prefer replacing the trucks. The issues here are that Märklin uses snap-in trucks, rather than a bolster pin and their bolster isn't always in a prototypical position. So you need to fill and re-drill the car bodies. MTL provides all the necessary measurements. Zelatory make inserts for replacing couplers and kits to upgrade specific car types. available through Monster Z. I've used the kits: instructions are well written and I've been happy with the results. I also use transition cars, particularly with locomotives and when any of the above options would adversely affect the value of the rolling stock, as with limited editions. Hope this helps, Mark Thanks, Mark. I was given a caboose where this was done and done well. Now I know how it was done. |
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Post by neverland on Jul 16, 2018 9:08:09 GMT -5
I can add that I converted a Märklin caboose too (there was a topic about it), with a Zelatory adapter, MTL trucks and couplers, FT axles : not really cheap ; it looks and runs fine but I didn't test the function of remote uncoupling ; my first concern is that it stays ... coupled ! Mine is a Marklin caboose as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 12:32:27 GMT -5
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Post by neverland on Jul 17, 2018 5:45:22 GMT -5
Thanks, guys, for all your info & links, which I will certainly draw on in the future. However I just solved my current 50' boxcar dilemma another way. I popped the shells off both my N & W boxcar & a NYC 50' that could run just as well with Marklin couplers & swapped bodies. I was up and running in less than 2 minutes. The old KISS principle. 😄
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Post by drdendro on Oct 21, 2018 3:42:28 GMT -5
Folks,
The "autolatch" couplers are misnamed. In any case, this is a poor solution because to uncouple you have to use thumb and finger. So it is really impossible to operate like a real RR, delivering empties, waiting an interval for loading and picking up, transporting to customers and all the rest. The AZL couplers are fine if all you want to do is watch your trains go round and round, but the rest of the model RR world is into operating. I asked on the Z_scale group about operating and several people replied that they did by replacing AZL's couplers with Micro-Trains couplers. Easy enough on most rolling stock, but a pain on locomotives. Why doesn't AZL produce their own magnematic couplers, the patents have expired a long time ago? A complaint heard is that MTL couplers sometimes break and there is a "slinky" effect sometimes. A new design could be more robust and minimize the slinky effect, but the basic design is OK, just needs tweaking. It is unfortunate that the rest of the model RR world looks on Z scale as toy-like, but until we can do operations we won't be able to argue with them. Any company that can produce a Krauss-Maffei (sp?) locomotive can surely produce something less exotic like a copy of a magnematic coupler?
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Post by markm on Oct 21, 2018 8:08:22 GMT -5
Dr. welcome to the AZL forum.
First off, I have to say I find the MTL stand of the Z scale couplers unfortunate. A number of N scale modelers have said (some in MR) that the N scale magne-matic® couplers are what made N scale happen. I suspect the same would happen in Z.
The patents for the coupler and the process for assembling them run out next month. This is assuming that MTL hasn't successfully filed an extension. The trademarks for the names and descriptions of these couplers expire in the distant future.
It's not like people haven't tried to build an alternative. A new coupler design was announced in 2012, but for reasons unknown to me it never happened.
Have you ever tried to assemble a magne-matic® coupler? The coupler and tool design IMHO is at least as complex as a locomotive design, definite obstacles to duplication.
So for the foreseeable future, I expect to continue to switch out couplers on equipment I want to use for operations or buy MTL.
Mark
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Post by drdendro on Oct 22, 2018 1:37:34 GMT -5
Mark,
Interesting. I thought that MTL inherited the magnematic couplers when they took over Z scale from Kato. Was that really only 17 years ago? I cannot think of a reason why an extension would be granted, but I suppose anything is possible. I definitely agree that magnematic couplers are far more complex than "autolatch" couplers, but the design is there, just needs some tweaking. MTL doesn't allow other companies to buy the magnematic couplers en masse to use in competition and I really cannot fault them for that. Nowhere does it say that a company has to help its competitors.
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Post by markm on Oct 22, 2018 11:29:00 GMT -5
I wanted to confirm the patent status before I posted and I was rather surprised at 1998 as the latest grant dates for the magne-matic® couplers. I know I purchased my first non-Märklin unit in 1988, I believe under the Kadee name. I've found a good patent attorney can work miracles with terms like "new and improved."
I find the MTL coupler decision understandable, but strange. For a number of years, they allowed other manufacturers to use the couplers, including AZL. And if a Z-scale-wide acceptance of magne-matic® couplers brings in more people like yourself interested in Z scale operations it's a win for MTL and everyone. Of course a good IP attorney could successfully argue that since MTL at one time allowed others to use their coupler, they lost their right to exclusivity.
Mark
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Post by domi on Oct 23, 2018 1:27:31 GMT -5
Mark, Interesting. I thought that MTL inherited the magnematic couplers when they took over Z scale from Kato. Was that really only 17 years ago? I cannot think of a reason why an extension would be granted, but I suppose anything is possible. I definitely agree that magnematic couplers are far more complex than "autolatch" couplers, but the design is there, just needs some tweaking. MTL doesn't allow other companies to buy the magnematic couplers en masse to use in competition and I really cannot fault them for that. Nowhere does it say that a company has to help its competitors. Actually MTL coupler is this company’s own brand. Nothing to deal with Kato (Kato IS NOT a Z scale manufacturer, and doesn’t even consider to be). MTL is a company born in the 80’s, founded by some Kadee guys. Thus it was logical one of their features was a Kadee style coupler. Speaking of patent I don’t know what regulation is, but when one looks at other scales, it can be considered almost every manufacturer develops his Kadee style (and Kadee compatible) coupler. Thus one could imagine the same for Z.... Because I agree : when we can demonstrate full switching operations, the other guys will consider us seriously. With a modern snail speed power pack (forget Marklin’s) you can run almost any Z scale loco at a scale walking man’s pace. Myself I’m definitly a switching guy, watching trains turning around and around is definitly not an option for me. That’s why I’m swapping couplers with MTL’s brand on all of my AZL locos (see the posts I wrote about my SD70ACe, my ES44AC and my GP38s). I prepare myself to do the same on every one of my AZL freight cars (still can’t figure out a way to follow with my autoracks, with their long end overhang). Like for my locomotives, I will have to define a procedure to follow. But one of the features AZL could incorporate (or keep available) on their locos and rolling stock would be at every end a chassis mounted socket allowing modeller just to screw a MTL #905 coupler in place. That would definitly be a plus for overall excellent AZL rolling stock and motive power. Dom |
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Post by charlie on Oct 23, 2018 2:57:46 GMT -5
I fully agree here, my aim is also to convert all the couplers on freight cars and locos so I can switch easily (not for passenger trains). Quick and simple on Mikados, and early AZL locos, it is now much more complicated (F3, GP7, E9) ....need to cut glue or even change truck...not an option, as the result is not always good and switching operations aren't always perfect afterwards. But this has already been discussed earlier. Still a lot to do here!
Charlie
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