The discussion in the Maxi-I thread about pricing mentions AZL MSRP's, as if that number is easy to find. And when compared to what some shops show as "MSRP" or "Retail", the MSRP mentioned in that thread is much different. I realize they can be different, (by definition an MSRP is "suggested") but generally I've found most e-tailers to have a pretty similar number for MSRP or Retail. In the rest of the model railroading industry that is generally the case as well.
I've always thought it odd that AZL never publishes pricing during announcements, but maybe they are published somewhere?
The above is a fairly random compilation of prices of various AZL products to show the comparison of AZLDirect's price versus what 3 stores show as their price 1 and price 2. (two of the stores used the term "Retail", while the third did not label their price 1 figure) In my mind, the table shows pretty clearly that the AZLDirect price doesn't equate to the "Fixed Dealer Price" that AZL mentioned.
If you take the third store out of the equation, you'll see that there does seem to be a pretty consistent price associated with "Retail". THAT is the price I was referring to....Rob used the term MSRP (yet Hans says they don't use that anymore) so I just wanted to know what that number is in his mind...is it referring to the AZLDirect price, the "Fixed Dealer Price", or something else. There does not seem to be ANY correlation between the AZLDirect price and the store's Retail price. (assumed Fixed Dealer Price?) Maybe the MSRP does still exist as the AZLDirect Price, and the FDP is some market multiplier based on preorders and anticipated sales? Dunno.
Some of us have to plan things out a little bit. AZL seems to have a history (for sure in the 2-1/2 years I've been watching) of announcing some spectacularly high price on a newly announced item and then eventually "softening the blow".
Biggest example of that practice was the Amtrak P42's and Superliners. I think they originally were announced at prices almost double what the street price ended up being. Then they hit and there was a large contingent scrambling to try and buy them thinking they might be scarce. (which ultimately wasn't the case, and I wonder how much of that had to do with people just writing them off as out of budget?)
Rob/Hans, I get "underpromise and overdeliver", but there needs to be some basis of reality so people know what they're up against. Frankly, the whole situation reminds me of the way Bachmann prices things in other scales, and it ends up hurting their dealers and alienating customers. Your customers aren't "out to get you" here...we just want to find a way to plan things out and give you as much of our money as we can. No need for all the ambiguity and "smoke-and-mirrors."
So, are you asking if AZL the company publishes MSRP? I would say that AZL Direct IS AZL, and so the answer is yes.
AZL Direct uses the term MSRP, yet AZL states they don't use MSRP anymore. (see one post above yours) And ZSM doesn't use the term MSRP. And since neither of them matchup....at all.....I'm not sure it is as "cut and dried" as your snarky comments suggest.
Maybe the MSRP does still exist as the AZLDirect Price, and the FDP is some market multiplier based on preorders and anticipated sales? Dunno.
The more I think about this, the more I think this is probably the reality. So Rob's estimation on the stack cars of MSRP $199 and 10% off that for the street price would line up with taking $199, adding say a 10% FDP adjustment to get to $220, and then applying the typical 15-20% "discount" at the dealer level to get to $180-185 range which would be around 10% off MSRP.
This is, of course, useless in trying to budget for purchases. (see below)
So... AZLDirect Price = MSRP (or whatever Hans wants to call it now) Fixed Dealer Price (FDP) = MSRP + 0-20+% (?) Street Price = FDP - 0-20% (?)
So for every $100 of MSRP, the street price could be $80 to $120 or even more. (and, we typically don't get the MSRP from AZLDirect until well after the initial release of the product.)
Doug, Doug, Doug. Just wait until it's releases no mattter what calculations, predictions, and adjustments. It has no bearing on the final price. Like you said, the prediction on the P42 were way off. Rob A promise to keep the reefer to the old prices were not kept. I am just glad this not something I have to have.
Last Edit: Aug 30, 2017 14:18:45 GMT -5 by shamoo737
When you look at even one large retailer, the percentage discount off 'list price' isn't even the same for all AZL products. Most dealers seem to be about 20% off list or retail price but then again, those are not even the same from dealer to dealer. All I know is that I can't afford a street cost of $225-250 for a 5 car set of Maxi I cars with containers. That is fine as I most of the rolling stock I want any way. Hopefully, the CZ sets stay under $500 street price as I really want one of those. Nice stuff costs money.
Post by Hans Riddervold (AZL) on Aug 30, 2017 15:11:54 GMT -5
The AZL Direct price is not MSRP. We cannot undercut retailers thus our prices are higher than theirs, but not always. Scarce items are often priced higher than AZL Direct prices. Also remember that our AZL Direct site is for world wide sales and not necessarily a reflection of the U.S. market. But we are committed to keep our prices as low as we can even with the large inflation of bying Chinese made products over the last years. Think this is pretty much the story for every model railroad manufacturer.