|
Post by railtwister on Aug 20, 2017 19:20:52 GMT -5
After seeing the Z scale running so nicely in the AZL/Rokuhan booth at the NTS in Orlando, Florida, a couple of weeks ago, I ordered a Rokuhan 02 controller, power supply, some track, then dug my old box of MTL Z trains out of the closet and set them up on a table and ran trains! My MTL stuff (3 F-units and several freight cars) is over 20 years old, and some was originally bought from MTL with Marklin couplers and some came with MTL body mounted couplers. I see that at some point, MTL must have given up on body mounted couplers, because it looks like everything in Z now is using truck mounts. This seems to be the reverse of MTL N scale, where it seems like newer releases are going to body mounts. I do have two newer Z cars that came with truck mounted couplers, and so far they seem to work OK with the body mounts, but are there potential problems mixing the two types of mounting systems?
Bill in FtL
|
|
|
Post by mgatdog on Aug 20, 2017 19:47:59 GMT -5
I don't think you will . I never had a problem . But my curves are 195mm curves.
|
|
|
Post by markm on Aug 20, 2017 20:10:46 GMT -5
Bill, Welcome to the forum. I can't speak for any manufacturer's thinking, but there are some very practical reasons. Obviously, to match the prototype, one would like body mount couplers. This is what N scale is doing. The minimum radius for a track is defined by the swing of the coupler. Generally speaking, body mount couplers have less swing than truck mounted. Z track has some very tight radii and as such the truck mounted couplers will work on track when body mounted won't.
Many modelers who don't use the tight radii, can and have converted to body mounted successfully. For a manufacturer to upgrade to body mount would require retooling the rolling stock: and expensive prospect in a small market. AZL has successfully produced body mounted couplers on some of their new releases and hopefully they will continue to do so.
If you have any MTL "Z" with body mounted couplers, they are probably Nn3. This can be confirmed by the specific model numbers you have.
Hope this makes sense,
Mark
|
|
|
Post by railtwister on Aug 20, 2017 20:22:40 GMT -5
Currently I have the new Rokuhan 195mm curves, plus some older MTL 195mm & 220mm, and I don't plan to go any smaller than 195mm. I was pleasantly surprised at how nice the old MTL locos run using the Rokuhan 02 controller, quite smooth, and not nearly as noisey as I expected from reading about them on the forums. My Pennsy unit still has its original Marklin couplers on it, which I plan to change out soon. It also looks like it has plastic gears as well, but my UP & SP units look like they have stainless gears (but I could be wrong).
Bill in FtL
|
|
|
Post by railtwister on Aug 20, 2017 20:34:35 GMT -5
Hi Mark,
My coupler packages say both Nn3 and Z scale on them, but the cars I have are definitely Z scale, not Nn3. Originally, the MTL cars came with the Marklin couplers, while some came later with body mounted MTL couplers. The original Marklin couplers were mounted on the boss for the truck pins and were not truck mounted. The cast metal floors already had the coupler mount screw hole provided, all that was needed was to tap the hole for a 00-90 mounting screw, and screw the coupler onto the floor. Cars that came from the factory with the MTL body mounts had a (-2) added to the part number, indicating MTL couplers.
Bill in FtL
|
|
|
Post by tjdreams on Aug 20, 2017 21:35:33 GMT -5
Some of the early MTL like the 40' double sheathed wood box cars "139xx" series came with Body mount couplers and they are putting body mount couplers on some of the newer runs like the 518 00 xxx series cars. I have found you can mix and match with out too much problem if you do have trouble try mixing with the same stock size ie 40' box body mount with 40' box truck mount. It will help keep the coupler swing radius the same on both cars which will help with derailments/uncoupling on tighter radius track.
As for marklin to Kadee style couplers make yourself a transition car with a Kadee on one end and marklin on the other.
|
|
|
Post by tjdreams on Aug 20, 2017 21:47:08 GMT -5
The (-2) only indicates that it has a MTL or Kadee style coupler It has nothing to do with it being truck or body mount. For swapping out couplers it might be easier to swap the entire truck underframe on the loco's you can get them from Anthony at Z Scale Monster Trains www.zscalemonster.com/mt/coupler/coupler.htm
|
|
Joe
New Member
Posts: 31
|
Post by Joe on Aug 22, 2017 17:02:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure when the exact change in policy happened...probably crept in over time. Body mounts on shorter cars is not a problem, but on the longer cars, running on 195mm or less they can be problematic. Generally though you can mix or match and you shouldn't see any problems with operations and the like. Markm is right, most of the body mounts were on the NN3 narrow gauge.
Joe
|
|
|
Post by railtwister on Aug 22, 2017 17:24:49 GMT -5
The (-2) only indicates that it has a MTL or Kadee style coupler It has nothing to do with it being truck or body mount. For swapping out couplers it might be easier to swap the entire truck underframe on the loco's you can get them from Anthony at Z Scale Monster Trains www.zscalemonster.com/mt/coupler/coupler.htmTrue enough, but if my memory serves correct, the truck mounted knuckle couplers did not become available until sometime after the cars were made available with the knuckle couplers installed from the factory. When these cars were first announced, I was working at a large hobby shop in South Florida, and we generally had to order cars with both Marklin and MTL couplers, which was a problem for us to inventory and display (twice as many sku's to stock). At that time, all cars, whether equipped with Marklin couplers or knuckles, came with non-coupler mounted trucks. Once the knuckle coupler mounted trucks were made available, they became the standard for factory equipped knuckle coupler cars, probably because it was quicker for the factory to assemble the cars without having to deal with screwing the couplers on with tiny screws. Most of my Z Gauge was bought during that time, which is why all but two of my cars came with body mounted MTL's. Bill in FtL
|
|
|
Post by strummer on Aug 23, 2017 9:23:19 GMT -5
This is an interesting discussion. I too have a mix of body and truck-mounted MTL cars. I don't suppose it really does make too much of a difference, at least not to me, as I don't foresee myself doing a lot of switching maneuvers; I just like to sit back and watch 'em run! Mark in Oregon
|
|
ZFRANK
Fireman
If you can't get it.....build it yourself....
Posts: 91
|
Post by ZFRANK on Aug 24, 2017 5:43:19 GMT -5
If you use the MTL couplers for magnetic uncoupling (which is reason for me to convert most rolling stock to MTL couplers), truck mounted couplers have the advantage that they also uncouple on curved track. Body mounts require straight track for uncoupling. :-)
|
|
|
Post by strummer on Aug 24, 2017 9:08:06 GMT -5
...good point...
Mark in Oregon
|
|
|
Post by railtwister on Aug 24, 2017 16:29:33 GMT -5
Today, it was rainy, so things at our club's train display at the museum were pretty slow. I decided to take some time to convert some of my old MTL cars equipped with Marklin hooks over to MTL body mounted knuckle couplers. This required removing the trucks in order to get the original Marklin hooks off, then reaming the coupler mounting hole in the chassis with a 00-90 tap drill & tapping the holes for 00-90 threads, screwing on the MTL assembled couplers, re-installing the trucks, and then test running the car to be sure everything worked. I did 9 cars (about half of the ones I have needing conversion) and this reconfirmed my supposition that installing body mounted couplers was a lot more time consuming than the truck mounted versions. Pretty tedious, too!
Bill in FtL
|
|
|
Post by strummer on Aug 24, 2017 17:36:40 GMT -5
Sure they are...but they do look better, don't you think? Mark in Oregon
|
|
|
Post by railtwister on Aug 24, 2017 18:49:35 GMT -5
ANYTHING looks better than the Marklin hooks, but in Z scale, I usually have to turn the car over too see much difference between body mounts & truck mounts. I'm glad that when I first got the MTL cars 20 years ago, I also purchased some of the assembled couplers to convert them. It saved me the hassle of trying to find them now that I've finally gotten around to doing the conversion to knuckles. An interesting observation is that the Z Gauge cars seem easier to put on the rails than my N Gauge, possibly because the trucks are wider (resulting in less body overhang) plus the bow tie shaped truck pins keep the trucks closer aligned to the car centerline. Railing ramps are for sissies!
Bill in FtL
|
|